Anchors. I hate to do this but...
- Thread starter Twister_Ken
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Chris_Robb
Well-known member
I think the use of this web link is a disgrace to the memory of Alain.I know Alain loathed Craig from private correspondence I had with him on many occasions.
This now sums up my feeling for this loathsome company called Rocna. I urge people not to buy their product, how ever good it may be, because of their immoral attitude. A pox on the name of Smith.....
If the current owners disassociates them themselves from the Smith family in general then they may redeem themselves.
cliff
Active member
+1 I notice the wee shonky has been quiet of late.
Brian@Fortress
New member
+ Infinity. Alain despised Craig & Rocna for falsifying test results and disparaging competitors as we all do. Craig's use of the Alain's former domain name is his sinister way of payback to Alain for his efforts to challenge Craig & expose Rocna in the boating forums.
Craig & Rocna have provided a textbook example as to how this powerful new marketing tool called the Internet can be used by a dishonest company to promote a new product to a world audience by means of notoriety.
But let a further lesson be taught that the Internet can also be used to expose such fraudulent companies to that same world audience.
It is encouraging to see that many people have awoken to the slimy ways of Rocna, and Craig is being properly shouted down and discredited in other boating forums. In addition to this forum, the Anything Sailing forum has a barbecue going on now, and Craig is the dishonored guest.
And maybe payback to Craig & Rocna will soon be coming in the form of two new roll bar anchors that Spade will be introducing to the market, the "Seablade" and "Spoon." Images are below.
And finally, to my colleague Alain: Rest in peace and fair winds.
Sincerely,
Brian
Fortress Marine Anchors
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Djbangi
New member
Spade, Manson Anchor Right, Lewmar, Plastimo, XYZ et al
We have been through this before - the current owners of the Rocna name have not dissociated themselves over months (years?) now from the abuse, of all and sundry, by The Smiths - the abuse and misuse has slipped a rung, or ten, how low will they go? Actually maybe it was always this low, we never knew. It is difficult to think they could slip much lower. But then I thought tweaking of data, flooding the Rocna name as some form of sublliminal advertising and slander was pretty low (but still they had their supporters - and I simply could not understand why people, some with corporate images to protect, could support such a distasteful, dishonest and, basically, nasty corporate personailty). I am uncomfortable to think that my moral standards are so at variance with some people. None of the Rocna agents stood up and said this is wrong, they too were in it for the money. So if the current owners of the Rocna name say, 'sorry', that (to me) does not excuse. They have thought it was advantageous, they thought it would increase sales - I am sorry but I do not accept that such abuse is acceptable nor forgivable. Offshore manufacture, sexy girls (or boys) in advertising, corporate golf, business lunches (within reason) is part of corporate life - Rocna seem to have developed and honed a totally new corporate culture.
If you think that such policies are part of 21st century corporate life then it will not be possible to discourage your purchase decisions. Frankly I would not waste my time in trying to correct you. However there are technically or superior alternatives, Manson, Spade, Anchor Right, Fortress etc - if I have missed you as a manufacturer - simply join this thread (you will find I and others will support you). But to me abuse, slander and dishonesty etc should not be supported by consumers nor internet forums.
I am willing to be persuaded that my standards are wrong - try me.
We have been through this before - the current owners of the Rocna name have not dissociated themselves over months (years?) now from the abuse, of all and sundry, by The Smiths - the abuse and misuse has slipped a rung, or ten, how low will they go? Actually maybe it was always this low, we never knew. It is difficult to think they could slip much lower. But then I thought tweaking of data, flooding the Rocna name as some form of sublliminal advertising and slander was pretty low (but still they had their supporters - and I simply could not understand why people, some with corporate images to protect, could support such a distasteful, dishonest and, basically, nasty corporate personailty). I am uncomfortable to think that my moral standards are so at variance with some people. None of the Rocna agents stood up and said this is wrong, they too were in it for the money. So if the current owners of the Rocna name say, 'sorry', that (to me) does not excuse. They have thought it was advantageous, they thought it would increase sales - I am sorry but I do not accept that such abuse is acceptable nor forgivable. Offshore manufacture, sexy girls (or boys) in advertising, corporate golf, business lunches (within reason) is part of corporate life - Rocna seem to have developed and honed a totally new corporate culture.
If you think that such policies are part of 21st century corporate life then it will not be possible to discourage your purchase decisions. Frankly I would not waste my time in trying to correct you. However there are technically or superior alternatives, Manson, Spade, Anchor Right, Fortress etc - if I have missed you as a manufacturer - simply join this thread (you will find I and others will support you). But to me abuse, slander and dishonesty etc should not be supported by consumers nor internet forums.
I am willing to be persuaded that my standards are wrong - try me.
CONGO
Member
Chris Rob, Brian and Djbangi,
I know I said I would not be back but you have encouraged me to support the cause, for you Alain, from a inventors point of view, Alain had spent many years developing an anchor design that was far from anything before it, performed better than anything before it, how proud would he have been.
The big test to exploit the performance of his creation, what better way could you do, the biggest anchor test ever to take place. Ok we all know that once you have got a new product out there someone, will try and cash in, But hey, the Rat,( this his own terminology from another forum) The rat turns up with an exact copy, no you say, well remove the hoop and you have an inferior cheap spade that looks almost Identical.
Alain would have spotted this immediately but would have realized that in a one on one test the hoop would restrict the depth of the nock off spade with the hoop, true , take the hoop of it still works, strangely it buries a lot deeper, now take another look at this knock off, ask yourself why did he put a hoop on the rear?
As an inventor Alain would have spent many sleepless nights not just over the nock off but how his new anchors performance would go. What the one with hoop, the knock off, out performed my anchor.
Settle down let’s see why, the Smiths combo’s chart say’s so and Smith and son are celebrating, now i don’t know if you could possibly understand from an inventor’s point of view how this will make you feel, if you are a healthy man and cannot undo an injustice like this it will make no mistake drag you down, believe me I’ve been there.
It’s not that Alain has passed away as to the injustice of rat using his link, the rat bought out the side of Alain’s personality that he would have never exposed, the taunting, the lies the fabrications, altering of data is soul destroying to an inventor, not just the inventor, but the whole family as it certainly does become part of their lives too. Mr Rat do you not see the injustice, you may have been making Alians life a misery, isn’t that enough, why would you the take advantage of a link created by him in the first place. I ask you in respect of Alain and his family, have the second part of your organization (the dumber part) remove it now.
I said you are simmering on verge of being brought to justice; watch this space all as I believe it is not far away.
Regards.
Rex.
Anchor Right Australia.
I know I said I would not be back but you have encouraged me to support the cause, for you Alain, from a inventors point of view, Alain had spent many years developing an anchor design that was far from anything before it, performed better than anything before it, how proud would he have been.
The big test to exploit the performance of his creation, what better way could you do, the biggest anchor test ever to take place. Ok we all know that once you have got a new product out there someone, will try and cash in, But hey, the Rat,( this his own terminology from another forum) The rat turns up with an exact copy, no you say, well remove the hoop and you have an inferior cheap spade that looks almost Identical.
Alain would have spotted this immediately but would have realized that in a one on one test the hoop would restrict the depth of the nock off spade with the hoop, true , take the hoop of it still works, strangely it buries a lot deeper, now take another look at this knock off, ask yourself why did he put a hoop on the rear?
As an inventor Alain would have spent many sleepless nights not just over the nock off but how his new anchors performance would go. What the one with hoop, the knock off, out performed my anchor.
Settle down let’s see why, the Smiths combo’s chart say’s so and Smith and son are celebrating, now i don’t know if you could possibly understand from an inventor’s point of view how this will make you feel, if you are a healthy man and cannot undo an injustice like this it will make no mistake drag you down, believe me I’ve been there.
It’s not that Alain has passed away as to the injustice of rat using his link, the rat bought out the side of Alain’s personality that he would have never exposed, the taunting, the lies the fabrications, altering of data is soul destroying to an inventor, not just the inventor, but the whole family as it certainly does become part of their lives too. Mr Rat do you not see the injustice, you may have been making Alians life a misery, isn’t that enough, why would you the take advantage of a link created by him in the first place. I ask you in respect of Alain and his family, have the second part of your organization (the dumber part) remove it now.
I said you are simmering on verge of being brought to justice; watch this space all as I believe it is not far away.
Regards.
Rex.
Anchor Right Australia.
idpnd
Member
Birth of the boycott Rocna movement? 
idpnd
Member
Scotty_Tradewind
Active member
It seems that with new laws arriving for 'misuse' on the internet that all of the anchor manufacturers will soon have to mind their P's and Q's as slander and libel will soon know no boundaries.
Possibly best if you all shut up bad mouthing and try encourage us with straight honest fact.
Looking at Brians last post above.....Why should Spade need to copy the Rocna styled anchor with a roll bar?.... they must be very good if they need copying!
Possibly best if you all shut up bad mouthing and try encourage us with straight honest fact.
Looking at Brians last post above.....Why should Spade need to copy the Rocna styled anchor with a roll bar?.... they must be very good if they need copying!
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Rigger Mortice
N/A
Scotty,
In some ways I understand what you are saying, but all the manufacturers have been putting up with CS's taunts and innuendo for years. I, for one, am delighted to see them saying "enough is enough" and giving him a taste of his own medicine. Good on 'em!
We have also had some really good information from Manson, Fortress, Anchor Right and , indirectly, from Spade. What also stands out, is that they are all able to work together in a competitive world, without slagging each other off. There is only one company that they have in their sights....and we know who that is.
If you are correct about a forthcoming change in the law then all I can say is "get it off your chests now gentlemen. You've been subject to years of attacks....get in while you can!"
I must admit that I thought that this thread was nearing the end of it's natural life. Maybe I was wrong, so here's a picture of a Ranco anchor which was posted on Anything Sailing a couple of days ago. In his patronising way CS appears to be saying that it is designed to bend like that!
In some ways I understand what you are saying, but all the manufacturers have been putting up with CS's taunts and innuendo for years. I, for one, am delighted to see them saying "enough is enough" and giving him a taste of his own medicine. Good on 'em!
We have also had some really good information from Manson, Fortress, Anchor Right and , indirectly, from Spade. What also stands out, is that they are all able to work together in a competitive world, without slagging each other off. There is only one company that they have in their sights....and we know who that is.
If you are correct about a forthcoming change in the law then all I can say is "get it off your chests now gentlemen. You've been subject to years of attacks....get in while you can!"
I must admit that I thought that this thread was nearing the end of it's natural life. Maybe I was wrong, so here's a picture of a Ranco anchor which was posted on Anything Sailing a couple of days ago. In his patronising way CS appears to be saying that it is designed to bend like that!
Scotty_Tradewind
Active member
I was on a boat with a CQR that bent almost the same as that many years ago.
A good job it did, otherwise the skipper would have ripped off half his bow on the dockside.
Most important thing is that the materials did not break or welds part I would think.
www.sailingscotty.com
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Rigger Mortice
N/A
A very fair point but don't tell CS; he's too busy arguing the toss about the metallurgy and why it bent!
Mark-1
Well-known member
Personally I think it might be better to think of some positive things to say about Alain rather than repeatedly making pops at CS.
Rigger Mortice
N/A
There have been several affectionate and touching tributes to Alain on this thread. Sadly, I never had any dealings with him, but it is clear from the comments of those that knew him, that he would be delighted to see his old adversary being taken to task.
Conachair
Guest
this thread has turned into a playground witch hunt now, parts of it anyway. In my humble opinion.
Presumable all those who are holding the "don't buy rocna" banners have the moral consistancy to also refrain from buying anything from petrochemical companies, tescos, drug campanies or even Disney cos they really are nasty cynical companies.
The tempatation to click again will be extreme but I'm out of here.
This is embarassing.
Presumable all those who are holding the "don't buy rocna" banners have the moral consistancy to also refrain from buying anything from petrochemical companies, tescos, drug campanies or even Disney cos they really are nasty cynical companies.
The tempatation to click again will be extreme but I'm out of here.
This is embarassing.
Ubergeekian
Active member
It's the hypocrisy that gets me, mostly, from Mr Smith. It is interesting that all the other anchor companies represented here seem to treat each other with mutual respect.
And yes, I try to avoid nasty companies when I can.
Rigger Mortice
N/A
So do I. Tiscali is one. Rocna is another.
I don't expect others to agree. That's their call.
Brian@Fortress
New member
Agreed. Quick story: When the Spade anchor first came out Alain was quite fond of sending us French press clippings of anchor tests in which the Spade did well and out-performed the Fortress. He would attach a note that would say words to the effect of "See how my new anchor beat your anchor!"
This led to a dialogue of heated discussions where we would analyze anchor tests and then debate which of our anchors out-did the other. Neither of us took losing very well.....but in the end these discussions were always respectful, honest, and fun.
Alain was a highly intelligent man who was very proud of his product....and rightfully so. It was and still is a damn good anchor.....and one of the best in the world.
Mark-1
Well-known member
Nice.
I posted this elsewhere but there's some pretty good photos, and google translate does a fairly good job for the linguistically challenged - like me.
http://www.hylas.ws/Marin/Accueil_Marin.htm
macd
Active member
From what you say, we might reasonably conclude that if someone affilated with one those nasty cynical companies came on this forum to flog his product (and incidentally trash his competitors) you'd be one of the first to post in protest. So what's the difference?
I don't think many posters have waved "don't buy Rocna" banners, although several (myself included) have said that they personally would not buy one.
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