Anchors. I hate to do this but...

[CONGO]

Hi Truscott,

Mate no offence taken, Just not accustomed to forums’ and have never had so many questions, with what I had been reading on this thread I was probably a bit on the offensive, you know when you come up with something new it is very difficult for viewers such as yourself to get around it, given the nature of the shifty business that has been filtering through now for such a long time it also muddies the waters for anyone trying to be genuine, like I said when I entered this forum I felt as if a bucket of bricks was swinging above my head.

If you do come to Australia I would be disappointed if you didn’t drop in and say G day, I don’t know if you are interested but I have been in this game for now many years, if you are searching for credibility go to our web site www.anchorright.com.au and click on PRT, one of your own Jeremy Clarkson on you tube is climbing a mountain in Ireland with the aid of our Ground anchor, so you will see we go back a long way with anchor technology not just for boats.

Kind Regards.
Rex.

 

[Grehan]

Oh no !!!

Jeremy Clarkson
That's your credibility gone right up the swannee, or down the dunny !

 

[noelex]

Hi NOELEX,

how many anchors do you suppose we would have to replace?

Based on our last sixteen years not to many, so why bother, replace it, providing they can show they purchased it new I would do what I do here, ask the question first make sure the anchor that’s bent is the right size for their boat, if it is to small offer to upgrade it at a marginally reduced cost for the correct size..

Thanks for the reply
I agree I think the number of anchors that would be effected is small and I am surprised that either Rocna or Manson have not taken the opportunity to distinguish themselves in what I think would be a helpful marketing difference, particularly given the claims and counter claims of superior construction.
Anyway its nice to know you are prepared to back the strength of the anchor with such a good warranty

Is there a Spade, Lewmar or Plastimo representive on the Forum anywhere?

 

[CONGO]

Hi Grehan

I didn't say I was a fan of his , can my creditability now be retrieved from the dunny?
Regards
Rex

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Rigger,

I have read this thread with interest and have a few comments to make:

I spent 2 years as production manager for Rocna with numerous visits to China and to the NZ facility that was manufacturing for them.

While I have parted company with them last year and have absolutely no respect for them and the way they operate I will vigorously defend the Chinese factory and staff who make the Rocna.

The Chinese shanks are cut using high tech water cutters and the only heat applied during the whole assembly process is during welding. Their welds are so strong that they will not break and the anchors will not fall or rip apart unless extreme and impossible forces are applied in a test situation with the express purpose of destroying them. Normal use , even in hurricane force winds and seas will not break them, they may bend, but they do not break.

These new generation anchors will all bend shanks occasionally due to the tight hold they have in the seabed and with them being reluctant to move around in the mud you end up getting extreme forces applied to the shanks in a sideways direction, then they bend rather than release from the seabed. I have a collection of photos of bent shanks due only to this reason.

It is a great anchor there is no doubt about that. Craig is passionate about it and nothing will change his attitude or his mannr, its just the way he is.

You have raised many valid points and errors that needed to be raised, but you will not be able to persuade them to change their way of promoting the product.

I too am surprised that the CEO has not replied to any of this thread especially when he has had a long standing fear of discussion boards and the harm he perceived topics like this doing to his business. The trouble is if you stick your head in the sand too long someone will come along and expose your shortcomings.

Grant,

Thanks for the input.

I fully understand what you are saying about the factory in China. However, the comments on heat being used in cutting the shanks were not related to China. It was Craig Smith who was talking of excess heat damaging the metal.
He introduced the subject as one of his unsolicited "digs" at Manson. You and I both know that there are different ways of cutting metal. Craig Smith does to; but he elected to introduce the claims about damage being caused to metal as part of his longstanding stategy of a bit of missinformation here, an innuendo there....all designed to sow the seeds of doubt in peoples minds. He doesn't know how Manson make their anchors, neither do I...but it is irrelevant. There simply haven't been the reports of problems with the Manson shank for it to be an issue. That is what I was highlighting.

With regards CS himself; yes it's sadly obvious that this is his way and he won't change. Just looking back a few years at the numerous posting he has made on this site and the pattern was established long ago.

The position of the CEO is remarkable, but I have little sympathy. He has done nothing to correct things on this, or any other, forum, nothing to correct their website and nothing as far as I can see to restrain CS. His silence is so noisy that it tells me that, even if only tacitly, he supports the Smith antics.

When you want to challenge people whose business practices were developed in the gutter, sometimes it is necessary to jump down in there with them. The difference is that, when I choose to climb out, I'll be able to. I know who will be left behind!

Good luck and stay around. I'm sure that there will be many questions for you.

 

[Kilter]

I have seen a few CQR anchors drag, but never that far.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Whether you are constructing out of 360 grade mild steel or bismuth the end result is what counts..

Hear! Hear!. I couldn't care if my anchor was made out of blancmange, so long as it works.

Rex, for a forum beginner you are doing a bloody good job!

 

[Ubergeekian]

Rex, for a forum beginner you are doing a bloody good job!

I am appreciating very much the frank and informative responses from the Manson, Fortress and Sarca guys here. This is turning out to be far more interesting than most anchor discussions.

 

[snooks]

I am appreciating very much the frank and informative responses from the Manson, Fortress and Sarca guys here. This is turning out to be far more interesting than most anchor discussions.

It's only taken 13 of my pages to get this far

But it's great to see some explanation and discussion on anchor design, rather than mine's the best

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Do you think this is looking at the dolphin or is it an ad' by someone we know?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLkdgvKyKGw&feature=related

 

[cliff]

I just received a couple of emails from Spade/Blue Water Supplies which I have copied below with their permission.

Hi,
Thank you for your e-mail. I have always had a policy of avoiding forums as I believe that they are for the users and not for the manufacturers (who will have a tendency to argue amongst themselves hijacking the forums). The worse culprits were Craig from Rocna and Alain Poiraud (HYLAS) the original designer of the SPADE. Sadly, Alain has recently died, but I would not like to see a situation where users are not able to compare experiences without biased input from manufacturers. I have never agreed with Craig’s marketing tactics, he has widely published false information on the internet claiming that the Rocna came on top of Sail and Yachting Monthly tests, when this was simply not true. The charts he publishes on the internet are made up by him and cannot be found in any magazine.
The Rocna is a good anchor, for sand, but having tested it extensively head to head against the SPADE, the SPADE is a clear winner in all seabeds. The lack of weight in the tip means that the Rocna sometimes fails to penetrate in difficult seabeds such as gravel and weed. Weight is extremely important... imagine trying to undo a stubborn screw without putting weight on your screwdriver. It would just slip, and that is exactly what happen with a Rocna in difficult seabeds. I have also seen Rocnas roll out on wind shifts which I found surprising as this never happens with a SPADE.
Please feel free to publish these comments on the forum as I do not personally want to get drawn in to the discussion if I can help it. Sadly Alain, who was a great man, will be better remembered for his battles with Craig on the forums than for the fact that he invented the best all-round anchor that the world has ever seen. One day a better anchor will come, but it is not the Rocna, nor the Manson Supreme which are simply cheaper alternatives which go some way towards the performance of a SPADE.
I hope this helps. I have been selling SPADE anchors since about 1999 and have been the agent for the UK and north of France for most of that time. We offer a 6 month full satisfaction warranty and after selling thousands of anchors we have only ever taken back one anchor – only to sell him another 3 months later when he accepted that he had mis-assembled it.

Best regards,

Julian Buesnel

and secondly

If you are willing to post my comments on the forum, I forgot to mention one thing. People often refer to the cost of the SPADE. No one would expect to buy a Porsche for the price of a fiat Panda, so why should a SPADE cost the same as a Rocna, Delta or other inferior anchor? The SPADE has a hollow shank, fabricated into a triangular box section, for strength without compromising weight distribution. It has a lead chamber to ensure penetration in difficult seabeds and help ensure stability during wind and tide shifts. This is a serious anchor which could make the difference between your boat surviving to sail another day or not, yet people would sooner quibble over a few hundred pounds. I guarantee when buying a new car if you had the option of far superior brakes for two hundred pounds, the majority of people would take it. But a SPADE anchor does not just give added security, it gives peace of mind, the ability to sleep through the night knowing that the boat will still be sitting where you left it. Would you seriously compromise that for a few hundred pounds ?

Regards,

Julian

Short, sweet and to the point.

Sad news about Alain Poiraud though (HYLAS) - wondered why he had not been posting for a while.

 

[Grehan]

Sad news about Alain Poiraud though (HYLAS) - wondered why he had not been posting for a while.

Me too, and although he was persistent in promoting/defending the Spade I don't recall excessive bad-mouthing. I hope he enjoyed his South American peregrinations in 'Can-go' (was it?).

 

[Twister_Ken]

Result.

Sam Spade fits exactly where Bruce Willis used to sit.

I was worried that some surgery on the bow roller might be necessary, but for once it seems my measurements were exact enough.

Now to find away of securing it when marina'd against the attentions of boat jumble stall holders.

 

[Djbangi]

Hi Twister,

Is that an alloy Spade?

Paint it pink - no-one would steal a pink anchor!

 

[jordanbasset]

Hi Twister,

Is that an alloy Spade?

Paint it pink - no-one would steal a pink anchor!

I always thought rust red would be a good colour

 

[Twister_Ken]

Not alloy but steel.

I did think about giving it a coat of zinc galvanising paint, just to hide the giveaway yellow bit. But as anchoring is so scientific nowadays, I'm worried that the yellow paint may play an important part in its performance. Bit like the AMG badge on the back of a Mercedes.

Or maybe I should just have painted part of Willis yellow?

 

[noelex]

I understand some metal workers will refuse to regalvanise steel with lots of paint on it so I would hold off the pink.

 

[melandnick]

I just received a couple of emails from Spade/Blue Water Supplies which I have copied below with their permission.

and secondly
Short, sweet and to the point.

Sad news about Alain Poiraud though (HYLAS) - wondered why he had not been posting for a while.

While I understand the comparison between the quality and cost of a Porsche and Panda etc it really doesn’t explain why on the international Spade web site they give prices in Euros which are about the same as the Sterling prices charged in the UK + VAT.
Can't really see why the price in Dover should be so much more than the price in Calais especially when the same people are importing and distributing them.
I suppose the same thing happens with cars.
I just hate feeling ripped off!

Nick

 

[snooks]

Now to find away of securing it when marina'd against the attentions of boat jumble stall holders.

Most boats have a locker specifically for the anchor, it's called the "Anchor Locker"

Out of sight, out of thieving minds.

Failing that park stern too....Now you can

 

[Twister_Ken]

Most boats have a locker specifically for the anchor, it's called the "Anchor Locker"

Out of sight, out of thieving minds.

Failing that park stern too....Now you can

Locker implies it can be locked!