Anchors and Ground Tackle

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I'm trying to gear my boat up.

Anchoring.
My thoughts are that if anyone knows what works, then it should be the liveaboard skipper.

If it's possible to ignore the politics etc of the Anchor maunufacturers at present.....

What successful anchors and systems do you employ as a liveaboard in what conditions in what type of seabed etc.?
thanks
S.

 

[Tranona]

You are likely get just as many differing opinions as there are posters! General consensus in the Med (at least in the east) where seabeds are usually hard and weed covered, and backing up to a quay is common, that a combination of one of the modern anchors (Delta, Bugel, Manson etc) for a bower and a Danforth/Brittany type for a kedge will cope with most scenarios. Perhaps at least as important is plenty of chain and a good electric windlass so that you can use your chosen anchor effectively.

You will find this is the sort of equipment used by the better charter compoanies, which are usually quite a good guide as to what works in any particular area.

Stand by for alternative views which are likely to be just as convincing!

BTW I have a 16kg Delta on 60m 8mm chain and 50m 3 strand (almost never needed) deployed by a Lofrans Cayman with remote control. Two kedges - 15kg Brittany with 5m 8mm and 50m rope and a 6kg Danforth with 10m 6mm and 50m rope for light use.

 

[TQA]

Genuine CQRs and all chain rode. [But I may be a dinosaur]

They came with the boats I bought and as I live on the hook [9+ years now ] I need to feel secure about my anchoring practices. Let it marinate for a while then a good pull to check.

My current boat is a 44 ft lightweight. I have a 45 lb with 200feet of 3/8th which is in daily use and a 65lb again with 200 feet of 3/8 chain storm anchor deployed once in 2 years for Hurricane Tomas. Both have 200 feet of rope rode which I have never deployed.

The only other anchor I have used is the Danforth type and only when I know the direction of pull will not change much. EG a Bahamian moor. The Fortress ali. model works well in soft mud where the CQR is not so good. I have a 37.

The only time I can remember really struggling to get a grip was in Scotland and I suspect that the bottom was covered in seaweed.

If I was buying today I am not sure I would buy CQRs as there does seem to be good experimental evidence that some modern designs outperform them is terms of set time/distance and holding power. I might have gone Rocna but they do seem to be out of favour at the moment.

But my anchoring needs are met with my CQRs so "It ain't broke and I ain't fixing it."

 

[KellysEye]

To some extent the anount of chain you carry is more important than the anchor, everyone has a favourite and often knock those who don't agree.

In an ideal situation the chain should never pull on the anchor, the boat should be held by the weight of the catenary. That's what we aim for. To get the right length is contrary to what some people think. For example in shallow water (say 3 metres) we use 10 times depth, in 10 metres we use 7 times depth and in 20 metres four times depth.

Bear in mind that all anchor tests are totally misleading, they use a straight line increasing pull, but the actual load is an angled snatch load.

For what it's worth we used a CQR in the UK, Med and Caribbean. Bear in mind it's a plough anchor and you have to drag it to set. Many don't set it properly and blame the anchor when it drags.

 

[jordanbasset]

My main anchor is a 20kg Kobra 2 with 50 m of 8 mm chain and 50 m of rope. In the last two years have anchored extensively on the way from the U.K. to Greece in all sorts of seabed. Sets well and holds great even in very strong and contrary winds. The anchor is oversize for my boat but it fits well on the roller and at £170 I think offers good value. More importantly I have confidence in it.
If I changed anything it would be to add 20m more chain as although have only had to put more than 50m out a few times would prefer all chain.

 

[duncan99210]

We have a 22kg CQR on 70 metres of 8mm chain for a bower and a Fortress (aluminium danforth type) on 5 metres of 8mm chain and 50 metres of anchor plait as a kedge. There's also a steel 14kg Danforth in the locker on 5 metres of 8mm chain and whatever rope is left in the lockers for the 'oh my god' moment when all else is failing.

Like Kelly's Eye, we tend to use much more scope than the books suggest, especially in shallow water. Our general philosophy is the chain is of little use in the locker, so provided there's room to swing, let the stuff out!

The Fortress is a great anchor; it's light, sets easily has yet to fail us. It will bite where the CQR struggles to get a grip and set and we've often used it to hold the boat overnight when we've been happy that the wind would stay in the same direction, as it's only fault is that it will pull out on a wind change - probably reset quickly but might bend the shank.

Now, I'll move aside and see who comes up next. There must be someone who's going to disagree........

 

[Chris_Robb]

To some extent the anount of chain you carry is more important than the anchor, everyone has a favourite and often knock those who don't agree.

In an ideal situation the chain should never pull on the anchor, the boat should be held by the weight of the catenary. That's what we aim for. To get the right length is contrary to what some people think. For example in shallow water (say 3 metres) we use 10 times depth, in 10 metres we use 7 times depth and in 20 metres four times depth.

Bear in mind that all anchor tests are totally misleading, they use a straight line increasing pull, but the actual load is an angled snatch load.

For what it's worth we used a CQR in the UK, Med and Caribbean. Bear in mind it's a plough anchor and you have to drag it to set. Many don't set it properly and blame the anchor when it drags.

If you need so much chain in shallow water, because you believe (erroneously IMHO) that the anchor does little, the chain does all, then you could possibly be considered selfish as you will be taking up unnecessary room in a anchorage, and certainly would surprise some correctly anchored (IMHO) boats on 4 or 5 to 1 when the wind changed. Or perhaps you should try a modern anchor to see how it really out performs the dear old CQR.

One of my pet dislikes of the CQR is that it does drag a significant way before setting (if at all) and thus exposing you to great risk of snagging the only obstacle in the anchorage! This is now a risk you do not need to take.

 

[noelex]

I anchor at least 300 days a year in the Med.
If you want to live at anchor over winter you need good gear.
I have a large Rocna that holds very reasuringly. I snorkel a lot and always take the time to look how well anchors are performing. My own rating of anchor performance from best to worst is:

Rocna
Manson supreme
Spade
Bugel
Delta
Kobra
Brittany
Danforth
Bruce
CQR

A fortress is excellent as a second anchor.

You do not need a lot of chain in most places 50m is just OK, more is better.
Go for the lightest chain that is strong enough. Put the weight into the anchor, large is good, huge is better when the winter storms arrive.

 

[Ric]

I'm trying to gear my boat up.

Anchoring.
My thoughts are that if anyone knows what works, then it should be the liveaboard skipper.

If it's possible to ignore the politics etc of the Anchor maunufacturers at present.....

What successful anchors and systems do you employ as a liveaboard in what conditions in what type of seabed etc.?
thanks
S.

Everything you need to know is here:

http://alain.fraysse.free.fr/sail/rode/rode.htm

I have experimented extensively with his thesis in the Med, and it is a very good model of reality down here.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I anchor at least 300 days a year in the Med.
If you want to live at anchor over winter you need good gear.
I have a large Rocna that holds very reasuringly. I snorkel a lot and always take the time to look how well anchors are performing. My own rating of anchor performance from best to worst is:

Rocna
Manson supreme
Spade
Bugel
Delta
Kobra
Brittany
Danforth
Bruce
CQR

A fortress is excellent as a second anchor.

You do not need a lot of chain in most places 50m is just OK, more is better.
Go for the lightest chain that is strong enough. Put the weight into the anchor, large is good, huge is better when the winter storms arrive.

What do you do if you have to anchor in Weed/mud with lots of roots? So far I have given up on this type of bottom, despite the anchor (manson) bringing up half a tonne of bottom, proving that it has dug in to at least the top of the role bar. Never had a problem otherwise except once when I thought I was on sand, but on diving, found I was on white smooth marble!

I have 80 meters of 8mm chain on a 40 footer weighing 12 tons. I used regularly at least 50 meters going stern too.

 

[noelex]

What do you do if you have to anchor in Weed/mud with lots of roots? So far I have given up on this type of bottom, despite the anchor (manson) bringing up half a tonne of bottom, proving that it has dug in to at least the top of the role bar. Never had a problem otherwise except once when I thought I was on sand, but on diving, found I was on white smooth marble!

I have 80 meters of 8mm chain on a 40 footer weighing 12 tons. I used regularly at least 50 meters going stern too.

Weed can certainly be a problem for most anchors. I think there is some scale effect and having a large heavy anchor helps to cut through the roots.
If you can see the bottom to pick patches where the weed is less dense, so I try to arrive at the anchorage when the sun is reasonably high if I expect a weed problem. When reversing back from dropping the anchor be careful of putting any force on the anchor before you have reasonable scope out, if the anchor moves its tip will get clogged with weed and it will never set.
Following these guidelines I have always got my 55KG Rocna to set and its very rare it doesn’t set first time.
In summer I usually check the set of the anchor (I like a swim after a sail anyway) and a couple of meters of line with a small float, attached to the anchor, is very helpful in finding the anchor in weedy conditions. Usually in thick weed you have to dive down and part the weed to see how well the anchor is buried.
In very thick weed a fisherman anchor will penetrate better than anything but the small fluke area of this anchor means its always going to be marginal in strong wind and so far I have never had a problem setting the Rocna
.

 

[Joker]

I had problems with a CQR in Germany anchoring in mud/weed. It bit in with no problem, but if it broke out, it didn't reset since it was completely clogged with weed. Am loking at a Fortress for next season.

 

[noelex]

I had problems with a CQR in Germany anchoring in mud/weed. It bit in with no problem, but if it broke out, it didn't reset since it was completely clogged with weed. Am loking at a Fortress for next season.

The Fortress is a great anchor, every boat should have one as a second anchor. The combination of high holding power and light weight is unique.
It is not ideal in weed however and sometimes struggles to reset with a change in direction.

 

[GrahamM376]

The Fortress is a great anchor, every boat should have one as a second anchor. The combination of high holding power and light weight is unique.
It is not ideal in weed however and sometimes struggles to reset with a change in direction.

Before I binned the Harbourfast (CQR lookalike) for a Manson, in very windy conditions I used to shackle the Fortress to the tripping eye of the Harbourfast and lay them in tandem. Never failed.

 

[Ariadne]

I'm sitting on my Fortress (FX37) with 25m 10mm chain as a main anchor in soft sand and an FX11 with10m 10mm chain and 20mm warp as my kedge, haven't moved in 7 days but I know it's going to be hard work lifting them up though.

We normally use a Delta (98% sucessfull over the last 5 years) with no problem, but for some reason it wouldn't hold here!

 

[Roaring Girl]

We now use a 25kg Rocna and 80m of chain on a 12m, 13ton monohull.

We changed to a Rocna after numerous problems with weed in the western Med, having been very comfortable with a CQR for a long time before that. We got fed up with thinking we were secure and then dragging, ro just having enormous trouble getting it to set at all. (And we had spent a lot of time at anchor before and were not anchoring virgins!) We chose a Rocna because Scottish friends recommended it for weed and it has been great, and very secure.

We extended from 60m to 80m of chain to cope with depth in eg Tuscan islands and fjords. We don't use it that often but are glad when we need it. In crowded Med anchorages in good weather we normally expect to anchor at 3:1, but will go to more when conditions and space allow. The Brits have a fair reputation for being anchorage hogs unnecessarily and we try to subvert that stereotype.

We also carry two CQRs (the old 55lb one the Rocna replaced and a 45lb one which is v useful as an anchor step), a Luke (folding fisherman) and a ludicrously heavy Fortress we use as a kedge or stern anchor.

I agree with the comments that long, all chain rode is a great help to good sleep and an electric windlass is very high on my 'essentials' list for long term cruising.

Most of all though - practice! In your boat, with your kit. You will drag - it's not the end of the world! Reset the hook, learn the lessons and go sailing the next day.

 

[KellysEye]

>If you need so much chain in shallow water, because you believe (erroneously IMHO) that the anchor does little, the chain does all, then you could possibly be considered selfish as you will be taking up unnecessary room in a anchorage, and certainly would surprise some correctly anchored

I don't think the anchor does lttle I just view it backup to the chain if the wind shoots up. I would consider somebody selfish if they didn't put down enough chain, dragged and hit me. We have fended off three boats who dragged because of too little chain.

We never had a problem using the lengths I mentioned because most long distance cruisers use those lengths. You learn the hard way. Charter boats don't so we always avoided those.

I agree about how good Fortress anchors are. We carry two, one medium size for a second anchor and one monster for storm conditions in which I would use all three with the monster pointed at the stongest wind direction.

 

[jimbaerselman]

What successful anchors and systems do you employ as a liveaboard in what conditions in what type of seabed etc.?
thanks

Live aboards often fall in love with whatever anchor they first bought; they learn to handle their shortcomings. Tranona's comment, that charter companies usually know what they are doing, is correct - if they've been in business a long enough time.

Have a look at http://www.jimbsail.info/drupal/mediterranean/fitting-out , the "anchor types" paragraph. Although this was written for the Mediterranean in consultation with many charter companies and many live-aboards, and it's been honed by comments from YBW readers (more comments welcome!). I believe it's valid for the general case.

There's little to choose between the various modern anchors; they're all a load better than ploughs and claws. In choosing between them your criterion is often going to be cost - including the cost to adapt your bow fittings!

 

[GrahamM376]

If you need so much chain in shallow water, because you believe (erroneously IMHO) that the anchor does little, the chain does all, then you could possibly be considered selfish as you will be taking up unnecessary room in a anchorage,

Perhaps you should read the Fortress anchoring notes which state quite clearly that holding power doubles at 10:1. We now use a Manson but even so, I use a 5:1 scope as standard and have yet to drag in conditions where other boats around us have. I tend to think that those who have minimum scope, don't bother to set anchors properly and drag into others are the selfish ones.

See http://www.fortressanchors.com/safe_anchoring.html

 

[Chris_Robb]

Perhaps you should read the Fortress anchoring notes which state quite clearly that holding power doubles at 10:1. We now use a Manson but even so, I use a 5:1 scope as standard and have yet to drag in conditions where other boats around us have. I tend to think that those who have minimum scope, don't bother to set anchors properly and drag into others are the selfish ones.

See http://www.fortressanchors.com/safe_anchoring.html

Yes, but I am not using a fortress.... However, I do use 5:1 especially overnight, but lunch time in flat calm may use 4:1 if good holding. My objection was that using 10:1 in ordinary weather in a crowded anchorage was possibly selfish, and unnecessary, unless of course the only way you can get to set your anchor is by using that amount of scope, when perhaps you should consider another type.