Anchoring - wind over tide

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iainmillett

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I have a decent 22lb Kobra/Delta type anchor with 10metres of 10mm chain and 25 metres of warp.

Last week we were wind over tide one night and my Hunter 23 proceeded to lie across the wind and tide resulting in the warp wrapping itself around the bilge keels and giving the incensed skipper a most uncomfortable night.

I did succeed in the AM to sort the warp out - only by securing to a fender and picking the wretched thing up again under power.

Does anyone have any tips to a) avoid this in future and b) help extricate the boat more effectively?
 
Even worse, in my early yachting days, I found after such an incident that the warp had chaffed two-thirds through. Since then it's been all chain. (Well 40m of chain which is nearly always enough, plus 50m warp in reserve).

Vic
 
I'm afraid that is what happens, wind over tide is a pain when anchoring and with warp it is ten times worse.

I had warp/chain on one boat as purchased and thought it was fine until at 3am I was woken up by strange noises. The boat was lying side on to the tide with the warp wrapped nicely around the keel and the whole thing was groaning, obviously about to break which it did, the warp sawn through on the back edge of the keel. Luckily we could re-anchor with our spare anchor (finding a spot with wind across tide), even luckier we dragged a grapnel next morning and found our main anchor. The following weekend we anchored again, this time on all chain and I have not used warp since.

Wind against tide anchoring is still a pain with all chain, but at least the chain will not chafe through. Unfortunately unless you can keep the chain away from the hull it can gouge grooves in it! Sometimes it helps to lash the helm over one way, but when the situation changes (wind shifts/drops/rises or tide changes) it may need adjusting. You might be able to lay a second anchor and lie to 2 fore and aft but there is rarely room in popular anchorages for this. The only real solution is to get out of the tide or find a spot where the two ingredients are not directly opposed. You might also try a second line hitched to the chain and taken to a stern cleat to form a kind of bridle, pulling the boat off the wind v tide line, but again you might need more room and this also will put more load on the anchor which might break out!
 
The problem with using all chain is the weight. On a small boat like the Hunter 23 there is limited room on the foredeck for a winch/gypsy. I'm not even sure that it has a chain locker, my Achilles doesn't, unless you count the bucket that its all kept in.

I like the idea of weighting the warp, I have been considering doing similar. I'll try this weekend and let you know how I get on.

Cheers,

Andy
 
One thing that helps a lot is to reduce windage. If you have a sprayhood, you should definitely lower it, it makes a massive difference. If roller reefing of genoa, consider dropping that too.
 
I had exactly this problem in very difficult conditions single handed and pitch dark. I had to cast off the anchor with a fender and torch attached and pick it up again. It then did the same thing again. So after repeating the fun and games, I moved.

To fix this I took to carrying a huge shackle as a weight, tied to the warp with a prussick knot and adjusted to be just on the bottom. I never had the problem again, although presumably with enough wind or tide it would lift.

Also, a small sail up the backstay helps enormously to keep head to wind. Of course ketches can use a reefed mizzen at anchor.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have a decent 22lb Kobra/Delta type anchor with 10metres of 10mm chain and 25 metres of warp.

Last week we were wind over tide one night and my Hunter 23 proceeded to lie across the wind and tide resulting in the warp wrapping itself around the bilge keels and giving the incensed skipper a most uncomfortable night.

I did succeed in the AM to sort the warp out - only by securing to a fender and picking the wretched thing up again under power.

Does anyone have any tips to a) avoid this in future and b) help extricate the boat more effectively?

[/ QUOTE ]

Either anchor from the stern with the tiller lashed or if the wind is not constant enough / wrong direction, try a bridle running from the bow to the stern with the anchor rode fastened to the middle. You should be able to get a point of balance..

My suspicion is that neither of these would work for long enough to get good rest, and certainly not past tide change. So why act like a fin keeler - dry out.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Either anchor from the stern with the tiller lashed
.......
try a bridle running from the bow to the stern


[/ QUOTE ]

Except in the most benign conditions, neither of those will achieve anything except make you even more uncomfortable.

You must not let your boat stay 'girthed' like this - the line will be sawn through in seconds in anything approaching serious conditions - the loads are huge and the back of your keel makes a nice saw.

You need to decide if you want to be tide rode or wind rode and increase water or wind drag as appropriate. In combination with a weight (I call it an 'angel' - not sure if that's a real term or where I got it from) on the bottom that will keep you sorted up to a point. But of course wind and tide change.
 
I could go to all 35m of 8mm chain ( the deck locker is fairly decent) but would not like to see that carving chunks out of the hull! I think I'll use a weight on the warp plus the trailing bucket technique and report back.

The warp (new) had chafed badly as indicated above but the 22lb Kobra was well man enough in a neap tide on the Deben to hold the boat broadside to.

Now where's the sun............
 
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