anchoring technique

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Chatting to a friend earlier, and it became obvious that we had entirely different techniques for dropping the anchor... not setting it, but actually getting it ready to drop and actually dropping it.....

So that got me round to thinking that maybe i'm doing it wrong......

So how do you do this.... do you flake the chain beforehand?, where do you tie off the bitter end?, do let it run, or do you pay it out by hand, or with the windlass?...... come on spill the beans....

 

[ChrisE]

Answering in order,
No flaking, bitter end tied off on a piece of rope long enough that it emerges from the locker and could be cut if badly snagged, let it run from manual windlass using chain and rope marked at 5m intervals. Once the rode is out let the whole thing settle down so that we are loosely lying to anchor then slowly back away till tight then give it max revs. Then when it drags, pull it up and go through the whole performance again.

 

[Guest]

Ditto exactly: except to add that when raising I very roughly flake it into anchor locker so that there are minimum snags when it comes out next time, and I use the manual windlass as a brake to stop a heap of chain landing on top of the anchor, hopefully.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Thats promising.....

I've always used the windlass as a kind of brake when I think that Ive dropped enough chain/rope to have sufficient scope.......

My friend doesn't do this, but instead flakes out the amount of chain he wants, and then locks the end off on his windlass...... he has been told that using the windlass in this manner knackers it very quickly.......and that is what got me to worrying!... i thought that the snatch load of teh chain all paying out would be much tougher on the windlass than my gradual slowing up with the winch handle....

 

[Sybarite]

I stop, ensure that all way is off and then give a little touch of reverse. Then I pay it out by hand and when I have about two thirds of the scope which I intend to lay, I block it so that I can feel it dig in. Then I let the remaining third out and test again using reverse. I usually block it off on the chain to avoid chafe on the rope. To avoid snatching, I attach a sacrificial length of rope to a chain link about 10' from the boat and haul in on this so it takes the strain. Quite often I have a swim when the work is done and usually dive down and see how the anchor is sitting and re-arrange it if necessary especially if wind is forecast.

I also raise it by hand - unless I can convince somebody else to. In heavy winds a little bit a forward gear is called for.

In my early days I remember anchoring in over 70', simply because it looked the right distance from the beach and I hadn't checked. Raising a 14kg anchor and 70' of chain taught me a useful lesson....

John.

 

[Robin]

We have an anchor locker with a lid on the foredeck so the chain is tied to the anchor locker bulkead with a length of line that allows it to be cut without having to stand on your head to reach it. The electric windlass is on a plinth in the anchor well. We chose our spot where to place the anchor (not the same as where we expect to finish up at rest), stop the boat, give a little nudge astern to start movement astern then lower the anchor under power from the windlass and lay out the decided length of chain. Our chain is marked by coloured bungee markers that are easily seen and which will pass over the gypsy. Once the chain is laid out to our mark we give another gentle nudge astern until the chain straightens and shows the anchor has started to dig in, then we very gradually apply more power up to about 3/4 revs eventually - but gradually applied, no jerking and done whilst watching a shore mark or another boat to make sure we are holding. Then the engine power is eased off, then stopped and we add a nylon snubber line fitted with a rubber mooring snubber which has a chain hook to hook between the links of the chain, the other end goes over the 2nd bow roller onto a foredeck cleat. The chain is then let out a bit more so that the snubber line hook and rubber snubber are taken over the bow and the chain hangs in a slack loop and the load is now taken on the snubber line. The snubber will ensure no snatch loads are put on the windlass or the boat and gives a quiet snatch free night.

Retrieval is a reverse of the above. Snubber line removed, a gentle nudge ahead to take any load off the chain so that the windlass is only lifting chain weight not pulling the boat forwards. In our case the anchor well is not deep enough for the chain to self stow completely, so 2 or 3 pokes with the windlass handle might be needed to topple any pile of chain that might occur and jam under the windlass. The anchor self stows in the bow roller and is pulled up against a small bow fender that holds it in place but we also clip on a line to the eye in the head which then is used to lash it down between two cleats either side of the shank.

Easy peasy.

 

[Ships_Cat]

Robin - what is a coloured bungee marker. Because of the gypsy I use paint but only really lasts us about 3-5 weeks of daily anchoring, so always interested in alternatives.

Our method is to drive up to drop position, stop boat pretty much dead, and I hit GPS anchor alarm. Our anchor self stows on its bow roller but in a position so it won't drop by itself if the windlass should slacken. So I go forward an pull enough chain up through the hawse (about 300mm) to tip the anchor forward on the roller ready to drop and and release the clutch controlling the drop with the windlass clutch.

Run out some more chain than the depth and signal wife to start backing up as I let the rest of the scope out. If the forcast is bad we will back hard up to set the anchor and then rotate the boat hard around the anchor in a circle to make sure we are clear of all dangers and have some searoom to get the anchor up and move should the wind turn untenable onshore. But most often, as we have never had a dragging experience in the 8-1/2 years we have had this boat (including in storm force wind conditions) we just pack up and have a drink without using the engine to set the anchor.

We have a central mooring bollard with bits on it - so temporarily make off the chain with a short strop (in most places we anchor the depth is such that it is very hard work to manually restrain the weight of the chain) and bring the chain around the back of the bollard up over the bit on one side then pull it tight with the windlass so normally all the weight is taken by the bollard but is braced with the chain back to the windlass. I do it that way as if one winds turns around the bits it is difficult to unwind again due to the weight of the chain.

Don't use a snubber or anything similar as we never suffer snatching with an all chain cable.

Raise, well everything self stows.

On the securing the boat end of the chain with a rope so it can be cut - what we have is the rope spliced to the end of the chain and a ss ring spliced to the other end. If one runs all the chain out the rope (only about 600mm long) runs up through the hawse pipe until the ring hits the bottom of the pipe.

John

 

[ChrisE]

Bungy depth markers

I don't know what Robin uses but we have bits of bungy held on with cable ties, one yellow at each of 5, 15, 25, etc and then one red at 10, two at 20 etc. We have used the same markers for 10 years and other than they are bit grubby they are still going strong. To make them just cut a length about 6" long thread it through a link so that there are two equal lengths then secure close to the link with a couple of cable ties, clipping spare tie as short as possible. We have a manual windlass but I doubt there would be any difference with an electric one.

 

[sphero]

One nuisance I've noticed is that on raising the anchor it tends to do a "flip" so that it's reversed and has to be sorted out by hand each time. I like the sound of the small fender - where is this exactly? The pointy bit of of our Delta fluke tends to knock out bits of gel coat when it's being raised!

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Bungy depth markers

Thanks for the explanation Chris.

Unfortunately, I don't think it would work for us as the chain itself hardly fits down the windlass hawse pipe, is a very slick fit - the stripper takes the chain straight off the gypsy and goes straight into the horizontal neck of the tight fitting pipe then immediately through 90 degrees down through the deck, all of which is actually an integral part of the windlass base (windlass is a powered vertical Maxwell).

I will, however, have a check with a piece of small diameter bungy and small size tie just in case though. 10 years sounds great compared to the short life of paint.

Many thanks

John

 

[Robin]

We use a Delta anchor too, connected to the chain via a S/S anchor swivel. Be careful about the choice of any swivel as some have been known to break on a side loading, I changed ours as a result. The swivel allow the anchor most times at least to come back to the bow roller right way up. The fender we use is sort of 'V' shaped with 3 eyes, one central and one each end, it is tied just under the bow rollers and the centre tie holds it up in place, it is quite small and inconspicuous. The anchor when raised is pulled into the bow roller so that it contacts and compresses the fender which holds it very firmly in place but we then have a short line with a snap hook splice in one end that snaps on the shackle on the Delta head where the trip line would go, this is then taken back and tied side to side between 2 cleats either side of the anchor shank. If we need to take the anchor off the roller to stow in the anchor locker, the same line is used to make a strop for a lifting handle, but in practice the Delta stays on the roller. We still ding the gel coat from time to time though...

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Bungy depth markers

On the anchor flipping what I do is ensure that with the anchor in the stowed position that the chain runs without a twist in it from the gypsy to the anchor. If the bow roller has a groove in it for the chain so that the chain cannot roll over sideways on the roller inducing a twist, then the anchor should come up the right way round every time (assuming there is no swivel used).

In our own case the bow roller is not grooved for the chain as we did not feel the roller would last with the heavy side loads on the chain that we get so is a quite flat radiused curve in the roller. Even so the anchor will almost always come up the right way round unless we have ridden hard around the anchor rolling the chain sideways on the roller such that it gets a more than 90 degree twist between the roller and gypsy.

We have a long run from the bow roller to the windlass and if the anchor does come up the wrong way around, which is rare, all I do is lift the chain a little midway between the two and twist the chain and lower it - this is easy to do and takes no strength due to the big mechanical advantage one has.

This is not so easy on many AWB's (for example, at least the 30 - 40 foot Beneteaus, etc) as the distance from the bow roller to the windlass is very short. However, if properly set up with no twist in the chain in the first place, the short length of chain resists it getting any twist after being set up straight in the first place.

Some anchors can be encouraged to come up right way around by slowly motoring forward or back (depending on the anchor) while the anchor is in free flight between the bottom and the boat. Going forwards can be a problem in some boats though if they have a plumb(ish) stem.

Not meaning to tell you how to suck eggs, just a description of some of the things we have done.

John

 

[Robin]

Re: Bungy depth markers

John

We use skinny bungee in colours red/yellow and a colour code using combinations of number of strands used, like 2 reds 1 yellow and so on. The code is marked on the underside of the anchor locker for easy reference. The bungee is attached by wrapping around a link and pinching it in place with small cable ties, then trimmed to show either 1 or 2 tails as required. Bungee is soft enough to go over the gypsy without causing the chain to jump and feeds down the hawse pipe ok, even on our last boat which had a 90 deg turn in the hawse pipe. Some people use coloured cable ties just as effectively and indeed one of the mags gave some away one month as freebies, I might try them if the bungee ever wears out!

You should try the snubber line, it really does help and we too use all (10mm) chain. IMO you need to take the load off the windlass so you might as well do it with a stretchy snubber line and leave the chain itself still in the gypsy under no load and ready to raise. What happens as the bow swings in gusts as the direction varies is that with chain alone it comes eventually to an abrupt stop,. With the snubber line which is wound through and round a rubber sausage type mooring compensator (they are common over here), the rubber stretches and absorbs any tendency for an abrupt stop which IMO not only is quieter and more comfortable but removes any snatch load on the anchor that might otherwise start it dragging.

Robin

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Bungy depth markers

Thanks for that Robin.

The cable ties of any size, for example of the same size as PBO (I think it was) gave away some time, through the link and pulled tight have no chance whatsoever of going down our hawse pipe, the chain is that close a fit. But as in my post above I will try some small dia bungy and a small tie to see how it goes.

We similarly have the color code (for the paint in our case) mounted just inside the forepeak as a reminder - I can always remember the first - white- and the last - orange (danger just about to have the rope tail appear /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) but hardly ever the others. The cost of age advancing maybe.

On the snubber. We have never experienced any jerking whatsoever on chain - the boat seems to always ride softly against the anchor. I am not entirely sure why this is (we use 10mm chain which is not unusual for the boat size), but think that it is in part, because we rarely use more than 3:1 scope so the boat is more restrained against for and aft movement and cannot blow back a long way getting speed up.

However, I have been meaning to try something that came from Mirelle, and that is to use a rope snubber through one of the bow fairleads to pull some angle into the boat aganst the chain. He had read that sailing ships did this in order to lessen their ranging around their anchors. I was going to try it our last 3 weeks away but just didn't get a chance (we also did not get much of the common swirling gusts in the valleys that trip either in order to galvanise me out of laziness /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif).

Regards

John

 

[Robin]

John

And the ultimate test is a Vent Solaire off Houat blowing straight onshore with a 10ml fetch at about F6 and at 3am! We once straightened a 8mm S/S hook on our snubber line in a Vent Solaire despite having a stretchy rubber snubber in the line, it just goes to show how high the loads can get, nowadays we use a proper cast chain hook.

Ah well, won't be long now....

Robin

PS for those unlucky enough not to sail around the islands off South Brittany, a Vent Solaire is the wind that comes suddenly and unexpectedly from off the mainland shore at night, having been blowing all day, often quite hard, the other way directly onto the mainland. It's effect, especially in July and August with hundreds of boats at anchor can be quite dramatic, fortunately it only lasts a couple of hours usually. Good spectator sport if your own anchor is well dug in and holding and there is nobody upwind of you! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[DeeGee]

Re: Bungy depth markers

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the explanation Chris.

Unfortunately, I don't think it would work for us as the chain itself hardly fits down the windlass hawse pipe, is a very slick fit - the stripper takes the chain straight off the gypsy and goes straight into the horizontal neck of the tight fitting pipe then immediately through 90 degrees down through the deck, all of which is actually an integral part of the windlass base (windlass is a powered vertical Maxwell).

I will, however, have a check with a piece of small diameter bungy and small size tie just in case though. 10 years sounds great compared to the short life of paint.

Many thanks

John

[/ QUOTE ]Don't understand the bungy bit. We have used the cable ties only. Each marker is two ties, so that damage to one can be noted and another replacement easily done at liesure. After much discussion on this board, we adopted the SNOOKER system. Red is 5m, Yellow 10m, Green 15m, Brown(Orange) 20m, Blue 25m, then repeat for Red 30m etc. We had black and orange but no pink or brown. It is impossible to confuse Red 5m with Red 30m. We use a scope of 5 to 1, so the colours are associated with 1m,2m,3m,4m...Red,Yellow,Green,Brown/Orange.... The cable ties dont seem to get damaged much, with a couple of replacements during one season. This has been fine for the last 3 years, and we have done a fair bit of anchoring. We have the same sort of arrangement as you, with the gypsy feeding down a snug hawsepipe, ours is an electric S/L vertical.

 

[ean_p]

Chain stowage

Hi John
What method of stowage do you use on your steel craft as I imagine that the chain goes below deck into a locker rather then into a deck locker.......that been the case what do you do with the entrained water/mud that it would bring on board. Is your locker fitted with a sump and pump out facility or do you drain into the bilge?

regards

Ian p.

 

[TonyD]

Re: Bungy depth markers

John, Have you seen these:

They look as though they would do the trick as they add nothing to the diameter of the chain.

Tony

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Chain stowage

Hi Ian

In the forepeak, which is quite long in our boat, and directly under the deck (in fact fastened to a deck beam) is a tall glassed timber box around 500mm (just guessing, haven't measured it) square that runs vertically from the deck to 100mm or so (again, haven't measured it) above the water line. This means that the box is about 1.3 m deep measured from deck to its bottom.

The windlass is directly above it with the hawse being a short ss tube with its bottom end flared welded through the deck into the box - the chain is a slick fit in this tube (perhaps too much so, it is the same internal dia as the chain hole in the windlass base casting). While it is common to just have the chain drop straight into the box without a tube, we find that the short piece of tube about 50mm long trains the chain so that when it whips around during the anchor drop it does not hit nearby deck intercostals/beam causing a rust problem.

There is an aft facing access hole in the top of the box (the whole width of the box and about 250mm high) to get at the chain and windlass drive. The windlass is mounted in the box with the drive coming out one side of it so that the electrical connections on the motor are outside of the box in the dry.

About 2/3 the way down there is a platform in the forepeak which serves to both help support the box and for standing on/storing stuff on. The box just holds 75 m of 10mm chain with only just enough drop from the hawse pipe for it to work.

Out each side (not underneath) of the box at the very bottom is a reinforced plastic hose (approx 20 mm and without sea valves) fitted to standard plastic through hull type fittings, which drains to ss standpipes onto which the hose is a push fit welded into the topsides just above the waterline (so they are actually below the top of the antifouling so dirt/rust stains don't mark the topsides). The hose is hose clipped to the fittings at each end. There is a plastic grid in the bottom of the box, around 25mm high, to keep the chain at the bottom out of any water that does not drain away.

There is no fastening for the bitter end of the chain, there is just a short rope tail spliced to it with a ss ring spliced to the end of the rope. The final restraint should one run all the chain out is that the rope runs through the hawse pipe and the ring stops against the bottom of the ss hawse pipe welded into the deck.

On the mud and stuff bit we always use a wash down hose on the chain as it comes on board, unless the weather conditions preclude that - eg if in a hurry to move or if the wind defeats the strength of the hose. But also when the boat sails on the wind into seas the bottom of the box self flushes through its drains. So, the bottom of the box is always clean without me doing anything to help it, except for the odd bit of shell or such which is too big to get out the drains. About all I ever do is after being away on the boat I give the chain a hose down with fresh water - we never day sail and usually do 3 week or so trips with gaps in between, so the hosing is not frequent.

Trust that is of some help, let me know if anything I have missed.

Regards

John

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Bungy depth markers

Tony

I have seen them advertised in UK magazines but not seen them in the chandlers here (but is quite possible they are to be found). If it is peoples' experience that they stay in the chain reliably, it would seem that they are just the thing for us so will see if I can find some.

If anyone has had any experience with the the inserts I would be pleased to hear of it.


DeeGee

Not having used the bungies I assume that they have the advantage that they are more easily seen perhaps when the chain runs out. I am going to relook also at the cable tie and cable tie and bungy thing again following yours, Robins, etc's comments as the paint is not a great solution. But with our setup the chain will only go down the hawse pipe if the clip part of the cable tie always stays aligned within the link of the chain - otherwise it will either cause a jamb up or get knocked off.

Some food for thought so thanks for the feedback all. I now have all winter to try a few things out while most of you are out sailing.

John