Anchoring charges

[kirielad]

Recently a forumite asked for advice in preparation for a trip to the Falmouth area, asking for information regarding moorings, anchorages, etc.

One of the replies advised that in certain areas of the Fal he would be charged to use his anchor. Hmm, pardon my ignorance but;

1- What is being provided for with this charge ?- after all its your anchor, your chain and your insurance if the worst happens. Are you just paying for the privilege of putting a 'dent' in the mud?

2- I had always assumed that (in tidal rivers and estuaries) the Crown 'owns' the sea bed, and if that's not the case then why do some areas incur a charge and others not?

I appreciate its a huge and very complicated subject but wondered if anyone with a legal bent could shed some light on this please?

 

[shmoo]

If you mean the Custom House Quay anchorage its really a sort of anchoring marina. You anchor (and pay) but get to use the loos, showers and so on and come alongside periodically for water. The harbourmaster (customary term: was a young woman when we were there) will even accept delivery of your laundry for you when they return it.

I thought it was quite a good arrangement.

 

[Poignard]

Personally I'd rather anchor for free and pay for any facilities, if and when I use them.

 

[shmoo]

I can see that point, but wouldn't mean people just poo in the harbour? Its a bit crowded for that.

 

[snowleopard]

A friend once asked the same question when anchored in Salcombe. He asked what was provided and what insurance cover they had - they went away and didn't come back.

In increasing number of harbour authorities are demanding money for anchoring these days and they are on fairly dodgy ground in terms of their right to charge and the liability they accept by doing so. Some dress it up by calling it 'harbour dues' - Chichester for example and a very few like Beaulieu actually do own the seabed. In many cases I find they charge the same for anchoring as for using a buoy.

I'm sure those prepared to stand up to these practices can avoid paying but for most of us it's easier to go along with it or stay away from the worst offenders.

 

[jerryat]

Oh damn!! Don't start me off on this one! It infuriates me that in both Falmouth and Fowey you are charged to lay to your own tackle, whereas in Plymouth this is not the case.

I don't want any 'facilities', we are fully self-contained including holding tank. I just want the right to anchor within sheltered waters restored to what has existed for centuries.

Out of interest, when we were galebound in Fowey last year, I queried with a nearby boat why THEY weren't charged when we were. They implied it was because they were a local boat. They also understood that the same 'concession' applied to Falmouth. I have no way of knowing if this is true, but I'd like to hear from someone (even by a PM) if this is the case.

If so, perhaps the answer is to change the Port of Registry on our transom!!

Whatever, this whole charging/port dues business is purely an excuse for commercial exploitation. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

There, rant over! Why don't I feel better?!! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[halcyon]

I do not pay to anchor, not as a local, but as a Carrick mooring holder.
Our mooring are leased from Carrick, and thus are allowed to anchor up the river. I do not think there is a charge for Carrick Roads under the Falmouth harbour commisioners, ie the beach of St Just and behind the light house.

Brian

 

[doug748]

No charge......yet. I notice from a recent post that St Mawes are now threatening to charge for anchoring. I spied a new rib there last year.

 

[ccscott49]

Normally "local boats" will have already paid harbour dues, so thats why they are not charged to anchor, although it could be some cornish plot!

 

[Guest]

A couple of thoughts.

First, my understanding was that in most cases there is no right to charge for anchoring - it can only arise in exceptional cases. On the face of it, if the people who are charging don't have good reason to believe that they have the right to do so, then it looks like fraudulent activity, which is a criminal matter. No different from any other scam, and potentially carrying a jail sentence. So I hope from their point of view that they have some reasonable legal justification for it (whether or not in the end correct).

Second point is - I know very little about EU law, but I would have thought that discriminating against non-local boats might be contrary to basic EU principles on free movement. eg. if a French boat had to pay more than a local boat, then on the face of it, I would think that contrary to EU law.

Just a thought(s).

 

[pessimist]

Oi you, get off the forum and down on your hands and knees. That flooring won't lay itself you know. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[snowleopard]

No, SWMBO is down on her knees, I'm supervising.

 

[pessimist]

Never heard it called that before. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Poignard]

[ QUOTE ]
A friend once asked the same question when anchored in Salcombe. He asked what was provided and what insurance cover they had - they went away and didn't come back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe that's an idea that can be developed further. If they are charging for something they are presumably selling some kind of service. If so what is it and are they liable under the Goods and Services Act? Do they carry 3rd party insurance cover, what facilities do they provide for the disabled, is the anchorage a place-of-work for their boatmen, in which case do they ban smoking? Can they be sued if your anchor gets foul of debris on the seabed? Endless possibilities for winding up the bureaucrats and their minions.

Or just go abroad and spend your money in places where you are made welcome!

 

[Cornishman]

It's called harbour dues. When I was the RYA rep on the Salcombe Harbour Committee, about 30 years ago, the right to charge harbour dues was covered by a bye law of the South Hams Distict Council as we were a sub committee of that authoritiy. In those days (and I have no idea what happens now) the harbour provided the leading marks and lights as well as the starboard hand buoy just short of the Bar. These had to be paid for. I believe they also provide a rubbish skip on a pontonn now as well as one or two other facilities.
As for Plymouth - it is covered by the Queen's Harbourmaster who has better things to do I guess.

 

[kirielad]

A good point. I have sailed to France on a charter yacht before (mostly marina hopping) but on the odd occasion we did use the hook no bloke in a rib with one arm stretched out ever appeared!

Anyone know about Holland, Belgium or Germany? Or is it just us?

 

[doug748]

Sailing Today had a high profile campaign against these charges, with a proper brief involved and everything.... I don't regularly get the mag but I think it's all gone a bit quiet.

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone know about Holland, Belgium or Germany? Or is it just us?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's just us. It wouldn't occur to anyone else to charge for anchoring. In Holland Belgium and Germany marina fees are low anyway.

 

[caol]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

It's just us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not all of us.

I have sailed in the wonderful area I do now for some 35 years and have never, ever, been asked to pay a charge for lying to my own anchor. I know of several places where I can use a "public" mooring without charge and at least one where I can lie alongside, again without charge, but with the request to "put something behind the bar for the boys" if I should happen to visit the pub.

All is not lost and I hope it won't be for a long time to come.

 

[landaftaf]

I cant help thinking back to my maritime law days that any vessel seeking shelter in a 'port of refuge' isnt liable to harbour dues