Anchor Windlass - Which one?

[Jonny_H]

I know I shouldn't ask this, but here goes ....

We are preparing our boat for blue water cruising - setting off in 9 months (can't wait /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ). We need an anchor windlass (currently we use the Mark1 arm muscles!).

Boat is a 37ft Colvic Countess, (circa 9.5 tons when tanked up), we have a 45lb CQR and are getting a Delta too (don't want to start a which anchor thread here! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif ) on 10mm chain.

What is the best anchor windlass for this combo (horizontal would suit the locker best).

We were thinking of a manual windlass - reasons being:

1) Cheaper to buy
2) Cheaper / easier to install
3) No need for extra batteries / huge cables
4) We're both young and fit
5) Spoken to people and read lots of books where people sail all the way round the world with a manual windlass without hassle

I expect a torrent of replies saying to go electric - but many many people manage with a manual, and we are both fit enough to haul it up by hand at the moment.

What manual ones are available (only seen the Lofrans Royal and Vetus equivilant) - and are these good enough for the size of boat?

Jonny

 

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
, and we are both fit enough to haul it up by hand at the moment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jonny,

I'm fairly fit and strong, (moreso after this trip), and I definitely wouldnt want to be hauling in our 45lb Plough with 70ft to 100ft of chain on a regular basis.

In Vulcano we anchored for a short time in 30m, so I had all the chain out, (50m), and some rope. Hauled the rope part in by hand, and it wasnt easy.

In Amalfi, the breaker tripped, (but I didnt know it was a breaker.... thought it was a fuse), so we hauled in by hand..... not easy.

In Stromboli, we decided to leave when a F5 and big waves were causing boats around us to drag, and it wasnt particularly comfortable - there is no way I would have hauled the anchor in those conditions, (which were actually much more benign than other times when you might want to get the hell out of there.

So... I know you seem happy with your decision, but I have to tell it like I've found in the real world.

perhaps you could try and get a trip on a boat with a manual windlass, and see what it is like to haul it in a few times..... like when you might not be able to get it to set first time.

Cheers

Richard

 

[Twister_Ken]

Strikes me on a trip away from repair facilities and spare parts, a electric windlass that fails is worse than a manual windlass that works.

 

[Richard10002]

Ken,

Cant argue with that.

 

[Steve_N]

FWIW we have a 750w Seawolf on a custom-made SS plinth in our Countess 37's anchor well, Jonny. 750w seems to be just about adequate as long as you don't expect to pull the boat to windward.

It gave trouble twice this year, but then it and the installation is as old as the boat.
- The first time the thermal breaker expoded, leaving me to pull up the 45lb. CQR and 40m of chain by hand. Hats off to you if you have no windlass and you're doing that regularly..
- The second problem came when I released the foot switch as the anchor broke the surface, but the windlass just kept on going! That's not something you expect to happen and it was quite a shocker. Luckily the anchor shackle got wedged in the bow roller and the extra load tripped the switch out, or it could have been nasty.

On a previous (smaller) boat we had a manual SL Anchorman - on of the horizontal ones - and that was a great piece of kit. Whether it would give you enough power for a 10 ton boat though, I don't know.

 

[doris]

We cocked up on specing the new boat. I said yes to an electric
windlass but it never ocurred to me that there would not be a manual backup. You are going to be dropping the hook for short stops etc. You are, IMHO, crazy not to get an electric winder. Just be sure that it has a manual override that is actually usable in the real world not just the design board.

 

[Bajansailor]

We have one of the old Simpson Lawrence Anchorman vertical capstan type manual anchor winches on a 35', 6 tonne boat, handling a 35 lb CQR on 3/8" chain.
This winch is operating on the edge of the recommended boat size limit, and in water deeper than about 6m it can be a right sod to crank up. Unless there is no wind at all, we still need to motor forward to the anchor - cant pull the boat up to the anchor with the winch. But you should always motor forward to the anchor with an electric winch as well.

The Lofrans manual winch looks good - another advantage of manual over electric is that the manual is always double acting - ie on the return stroke of the handle, chain still comes in. Whereas I think that if you are hand cranking an electric winch, it is usually single acting. And you will have to hand crank an electric winch at times.....

Simpson Lawrence used to do a seriously heavy duty manual winch called a 555 (Sea Tiger?) - these folk http://www.marinewarehouse.net/anchor-winches.html
claim to have the complete line of S-L anchor winches, but you have to email them for info.

 

[Salty John]

I agree with Bajansailor. The S-L 555 Seatiger manual windlass is excellent and it would be worth trying to find one. The Lofrans Royal is not the most powerful windlass but would do the job if you are prepared to help it by motoring up to the anchor and hauling the slack in by hand. I worry that Lofrans use an alloy body and stainless faceplates bolted to them which looks to me like a formula for jammed bolts in the future.
You are right to want a horizontal model for manual operation; it allows a nice long handle without interfering with other foredeck obstructions.
Your anchor and chain selection is robust and should keep you safe as long as you get the anchor well set, but needs hefty gear to handle it and that's what makes the Lofrans a bit borderline, perhaps. I prefer to use High Test chain to get the same breaking strength with less weight and more flexibilty - but that's a personal quirk!

 

[JackIron]

Manual is sooo slow. We had an SL555 (I think) and when we disappeared over the horizon we anchored when we could - in over a year we were tied up or on a buoy for maybe 5% of the time.

Hauling that damn 45lb CQR on 10mm by hand is not fun, but pumping that windlass less so. We were in our twenties when sailed away too, but its still a pain in the backside. You could consider it a safety expense as you are more likely to reset a dodgy drop if its easy to haul.

That said my honest advice is, if money is tight (it was with us) go with what youve got, if its a pain and youve got the cash install one, if its not a hassle stick with what you do already and keep it in the coffers. You are not setting off into the wide blue yonder, you are setting off into the wild blue VAT free or £1=$2 yonder.

yours aye

JackIron

 

[Jonny_H]

Ahh ... perfect!

Your anchor locker is identical to ours! We've aksed the countess owners association and most people have the front of the locker removed for access to the chain store below (the sloping white part on your pic).

This is exactly what we intend to do in our boat - but weren't sure whether to go elec or manual.

Do you have any pics of the chain locker and how it fits in the bow? (We put all the chain in the well on deck at the moment which is sealed - I assume your chain drops through the bottom of the well and into a chain locker in the bow?)

Some anchor manufacturers at the show said we couldn't install a windlass in our well when I showed them this picture ...

Your installation looks like exactly the ticket!

I've seen a 700w Quick windlass for sale locally quite cheap - didn't know whether this would be big enough or whether I need a 1000w if I go down the electric route?

Seems theres not many manual ones man enough for our size boat (most manfs don't make one anymore!) so electric may be called for..... been on the look out for an old Simpson Lawrence jobby but they don't seem to appear very often, and then to get a 10mm gypsy for them is £200 - so might as well buy an electric one at the price!

Jonny

 

[craigsmith]

What depth do you plan on anchoring in?

20Kg anchor + 15m 10mm chain > 50Kg.

Of course you could save 10Kg if you chose an efficient anchor type /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

What about if the entire tackle is accidentally deployed in deep water?

Will your windlass have a ratio? If so, how long will it take to raise that length?

What about the middle of the night, when you're dragging in a 50 knot squall toward imminent dangers to leeward? Maybe you're tired - or physically exhausted, or even injured. Can your other crew do it alone even in ideal conditions?

Boats above a certain size necessitate appropriate equipment and ways to handle that equipment. All manual gear should be easy normally, so that when things aren't normal, that gear is just difficult - not impossible.

 

[Steve_N]

I'm struggling to find any better photos, or indeed any of the chain locker beneath the forepeak berth. I'll be over to the boat shortly so will endeavour to take some for you.

Basically though the windlass sits on an SS box about 150mm high, with a flange that is bolted through the deck. It looks like the stbd. side of the anchor well under this box has been built up to be level with the raised port side.
This might show what I'm on about:

From the windlass a 3" polished SS pipe runs down to the foremost compartment under the berth.
This from when we bought the boat (damage now repaired, windlass wiring now upgraded, upholstery now jettisoned etc..):

The chain does tend to pyramid up beneath the tube and need clearing by hand. I plan to angle the pipe aft to give a better drop at some point, as we only use the forecabin as a garden shed and it wouldn't matter about the tube encroaching into the cabin space.

 

[Santana379]

If you end up going for manual windlass, I would urge you to check the gearing out. We had a Simpson Lawrence "Hi-speed" (I think?) on a Golden Hind 31 that was absolutely superb. However the classic style one I acquired for the "Nancy Blackett" and the one on our current Barbican 33 are both worse than useless. There's a huge amount of lever movement required to move the chain a just few links, so it's far easier just to ease the tension on the chain under engine power and haul up hand over hand.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Thats pretty much the exact same set up as mine....

I too find the chain piles up a bit under the windlass, and needs clearing otherwise it jams the windlass..... be interested to see how you get on with moving the pipe to solve the problem...

 

[Twister_Ken]

The classic answer to chain piling is to put a cone under the exit from the hawse pipe, so that the chain spills off in various directions and doesn't just heap up directly under the pipe. 'Classic', because several people who would appear to know what they are talking about have suggested that I do it, but so far I haven't. I just reach down through the forehatch with the boathook, to give the chain pile a hefty prod.

 

[TiggerToo]

I wish I were in your position... just about to set sail over the horizon!

But back to your thread, I second Craig's not so subtle point about anchors. First get a good anchor that will hold better. Since we fitted our rocna I have used teh electirc windlass much less often: it was OK to haul it out once after resting at anchor, not doing it multiple times with teh old CQR to compensate for poor holding.

But I reckon that a good electric windlass (1K) with a manual override would be high in my list of priorities if I did not have one already.

 

[pyrojames]

I had an SL Hyspeed on the old boat (8 tons, 33 feet, 25,000 miles cruised) and it was excellent. Repairable by local bike shops anywhere in the world if it broke (once) and hauled up 70 feet of chain and 35lb CQR in 40 metres of water. Yes, 40 metres, there was 200 feet of rope out too.

 

[Jonny_H]

[ QUOTE ]
It looks like the stbd. side of the anchor well under this box has been built up to be level with the raised port side.


[/ QUOTE ]

Our box is like this too (see the dirty area to port in the pic - this is 40mm lower than the starboard side, yet the underside of the box is flush, suggesting the starboard side is heavily built up to accept a windlass.

Thanks for the interior pics - so people use the area in the bow itself (ahead of your chain pipe) for chain stowage, but this looks a very funny shape to me, ie chain might get caught easily, and also very far forward, where your chain goes is lower and further aft which looks like a better idea.

Jonny

 

[Jonny_H]

Yeah ... didn't want to get into anchor choice and start a virtual fist fight, but we need another primary alongside the CQR so we can set two anchors. Weight will be a factor - needs some thought - but will be a Delta / Rocna / Manson I would imagine [ducks and runs for cover!!]

It sounds like electric with a good manual override is what we will go for - the question then is thin(ner) cables and a battery in the bow, or big cables from the start battery? Either way looks expensive (thick cables vs battery and associated charger). Just wish I didn't have the Kiwi Prop / Hydrovane / new fridge / new batteries to pay for too!!

Jonny

 

[Jonny_H]

Also, which horiztonal would you choose?

Lofrans Cayman 88 seems to tick all the boxes?

Jonny