Anchor type?

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PhilipMcLaughlin

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We are hoping to cruise SW Scotland for the first time. Any advice for the choice of a 2nd bow anchor. My existing is a 15KG Danforth (fine for sand/mud). Any experiences or advice appreciated.

Cheers - Phil
 
For my own boat, I have choosed an Aluminum anchor as a secondary anchor, same holding as the steel one but only half the weight..

Very convenient when you have to take your second anchor in your dinghy..

web page
 
Another good idea is to make your second anchor a different style from the first so, as you have a Danforth, I suggest a plough type for the second. Hylas will of course object to me describing the Spade in that category but it is sufficiently different from the Danforth and has the benefit of being available in aluminium.

I, like many other Brits, have done it the other way round - Steel plough as main, aluminium danforth type as second.
 
For SW Scotland I would (and do) use a Delta with a CQR backup and a Bruce as Kedge (used once) Personal experience is the Delta is ideal. Although there are a few anchorages where a tripping line is recommended the majority are sand/shale/shells but in shallower locations there can be a good weed cover.

Do not expect to anchor in shallow water all the time. do be prepared to drop your hook in upto 20m of water as we have some deep water here near the shore and the shallow anchorages tend to fill rather quickly during the brief summer.

Send a PM to starboard (Paul) he is in and out of most of the remote anchorages being an "Honorary Scot" (tight git) who won't pay marina, berthing or mooring fees if he can drop the hook somewhere.

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"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
 
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Another good idea is to make your second anchor a different style from the first ...

[/ QUOTE ]Back on the new generation anchors case again:

The argument of carrying a claw, plow, Danforth, and fisherman's, each to address the problems of the others, is invalid nowadays, because it is possible to consolidate the weight into perhaps two modern anchors (not a Danforth and plough) that will more reliably and safely meet all requirements. More may be carried as required, but are not needed to compensate for the poor aspects of the others.

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... so, as you have a Danforth, I suggest a plough type for the second. Hylas will of course object to me describing the Spade in that category but it is sufficiently different from the Danforth and has the benefit of being available in aluminium.

[/ QUOTE ]The Spade is not a plough - but the recommendation of a Spade is good advice.

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For SW Scotland I would (and do) use a Delta with a CQR backup and a Bruce as Kedge (used once) Personal experience is the Delta is ideal. Although there are a few anchorages where a tripping line is recommended the majority are sand/shale/shells but in shallower locations there can be a good weed cover.

[/ QUOTE ]The recommendation of a Delta is not bad, much better than any design dating before it (articulated plough, Danforth, Bruce), although it's still regressive since Spade has already been suggested.

Deltas do not behave well in weed. And if they roll-out, they certainly are prone to not re-setting.

Shameless plug: we have people using Rocnas on the west coast of Scotland and in the Hebrides, after replacing ploughs and Danforths. I'm sure you will also find boats there with Spades and other newer types, who have replaced their old out of date stuff for good reasons.
 
From Spade web site
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"The use of the anchor with an ALL CHAIN mooring line WITHOUT A SNUBBER corresponds to a misuse of the anchor and in the event of bending of the
anchor, it could not be covered by the guarantee.

In order to dampen the "picks of load", it is mandatory to insert ten meters of NYLON line between the chain and the deck cleats."

[/ QUOTE ]TEN Meters of Nylon line between chain and deck cleat - holy crap - that is longer than the chain I need in many anchorages I visit. I would be as popular as a turd in a swimming pool if I shot out a load of chain then added 10M of nylon line - too large a swing radius. Not suitable for use in many of the small anchorages found in the Clyde Estuary IMHO and in my personal experience.

Had a look at the prices as well - ouch - where are my smelling salts? on top of that I think the spade is an ugly looking thin to have hanging on the bows.

No, I am afraid I'll stick with my time proven Delta (which has never failed to set (or reset) for me even in weed, contrary to other's opinions).

As a point of interest do any of the SW Scotland / Clyde Estuary forumites have a "Spade"™ anchor? - Just curious as I have not noticed any - plenty of Deltas and CQRs but so far no Spade™s
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"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
 
I agree, any "requirement" to use nylon snubber, especially that length, is ridiculous and in my view into dickhead territory.

A very competent sailing friend has just returned from a cruise in areas with quite difficult and heavy conditions (you know where I am, the bottom end of here instead of your top end of there /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) - before he left he replaced his CQR main anchor with a Delta for size reasons rather than any dislike of it, and has come back very happy. Is off to the high latitudes of S America with it next.

Our main anchor is a plough (a very heavy one though) but if changing at the moment my pick would be the Delta, if only because the advertising claims for it are not exaggerated and "hyped up/strange" like some of the other modern anchors. Trouble is I have a spare main anchor and haven't lost the first yet so may be a while before I get into a Delta myself /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John
 
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Had a look at the prices as well - ouch - where are my smelling salts? on top of that I think the spade is an ugly looking thing to have hanging on the bows.

[/ QUOTE ]You get what you pay for... and beauty is in the eye of the beholder - most people in our experience actually comment on the fact that the Spade has excellent asthetics, and furthermore any anchor with a concave fluke, including the Spade and our Rocna, has flukes that tend to parallel the two planes of the boat's bow, which mean they in fact match better in fact than most traditional types.

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No, I am afraid I'll stick with my time proven Delta (which has never failed to set (or reset) for me even in weed, contrary to other's opinions).

[/ QUOTE ]Well good for you if it works, the Delta is not that bad, definitely the best of the plough types, but you have chosen to keep the lesser of two options. The Spade is better.

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As a point of interest do any of the SW Scotland / Clyde Estuary forumites have a "Spade"™ anchor? - Just curious as I have not noticed any - plenty of Deltas and CQRs but so far no Spade™s

[/ QUOTE ]As with any new product it takes a long time for reputation to build and for something to expand from the early adopters and serious punters down to the average consumer, who commonly makes their choice only on price or what their friends have. The lack of presence of what is still a relatively new product does not imply there is anything wrong with it.
 
Way down south here we have lots of Spades and Rocnas on boats. Being a nosey bu**er I like to ask questions and have yet to meet a Spade or Rocna owner who would go back.

The only 2 complaits I have been told is
1, they don't always bring up legal sized scollops and
2, the owners had to relearn how to anchor. They chucked on their new pick and did the usual drop and reverse to try and get a set happening only to find the new anchors set and stoped the boat so fast people were falling over :-). Can't have Gran spilling the Gin you know :-)

Like most new things they come from small manufacturers who don't have million pound marketing budgets. As most people seem to believe everything they are told, if it is banged in enough times, the marketeer wins. This is obviously true otherwise McDonalds would not exist :-)

The Spade and Rocna lads could cheapen them up by manufacturing in China. Obviously the price drop would in large and passed on just like Delta for example..... Opps manufacturing part right but where did the price drop go??

While I'm here did you see all the adverts for the Deltas telling everyone they are had some serious structural failures of their chinese made product. No!, I wonder why :-). Kept rather quiet.

Craig and Alain don't know this but in some recent plays we had we were getting 30%+ high holding loads out of their anchors than the next best, consistantly. We do stuff like this to see if the hype is justified, usually it is not, in this case I do believe they are not far off the mark.

It is one of those subjects where so many claims are made and not lived up to that everyone gets a bit 'gun shy'. I'd suggest you talk to someone with one of these, you maybe surprised.

While I don't make anchors I have to know a lot about them and find it very hard to recommend an older one over a new one, the numbers just don't stack up anymore. Not saying the old ones are bad only the new ones are better.

No stirring at all Craig but what about Gandy_Goose's question :-) :-)
 
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You seem a great fan of Spade anchors, Craig. Do you think they're the best?

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How diplomaticly put /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Way down south here we have lots of Spades and Rocnas on boats.

Stop pulling their legs GMac. They are actually as rare as hens teeth, Rocna's especially. In fact probably rarer /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John
 
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TEN Meters of Nylon line between chain and deck cleat - holy crap - that is longer than the chain I need in many anchorages I visit.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I understand well, and if you are using a 5/1 scope? Then it means that the height between the sea bottom and the bow of your boat should be less than 2 meters??

Considering that the height between the water and the bow of your boat could be around one meter, it means that you are anchoring in less than one meter of water??

Is that at high or at low tide??? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

(For a 3/1 scope it’s 2 meters of water)
 
no you simply put a chain hook attached to 10m nylon and hook it to the chain as you let it out.

personally I use 3m of 8mm on my little boat when I am in shallow water and on all chain - but I do it to avoid the jarring on me and the crew rather than to protect the poor anchor!
 
Cliff

totally agree with your reply. We use a CQR and have always found it holding well in every anchorage we've been in on the Clyde and further north.

Not against more modern designs by any means - if we had to get a new anchor they would be top of the list - I certainly wouldn't buy cotton sails, if you get my meaning!

I would say that of the more modern anchors, the Bruce is probably the most suspect. Great for holding oil rigs when its not expected to move - but not so great when expected to re-set and a bu**er to recover over the bow.

I'm not saying the CQR is perfect - I nipped my finger on saturday morning recovering the anchor, but it does a good all round job.

Donald
 
We anchor in some pretty trying conditions around here and never have any problems with jerking, etc so no need for any ropey stuff - and then some anchor manufacturer comes up and says that his anchor is not guaranteed cos it might bend if I don't use 10 m of the ropey stuff as a snubber.

Frankly, is an idiotic requirement /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif - well it is for any anchor of adequate strength which apparantly the Spade has not got.

John
 
[ QUOTE ]


I would say that of the more modern anchors, the Bruce is probably the most suspect. Great for holding oil rigs when its not expected to move - but not so great when expected to re-set and a bu**er to recover over the bow.


[/ QUOTE ]

Again an old belief..

The Bruce anchors designed for holding oil rigs have only one common point with the ones you can see on sailing boats : the name of the company which is (WAS) manufacturing them.. but they are completely different (see the attached photo)

BruceOilrig.jpg
 
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