Anchor recovery.

[Porthandbuoy]

I've been looking for a video of an anchor (any type!) with a banana (be it Viking, Osculati or home-made), being recovered and coming over the bow roller.
My anchor does seem to arrive at the bow roller the right way round every time, but I'm curious to know if a banana will move the anchor forward slightly when it comes over the roller, reducing the chances of a topside ding or, if it does swing the anchor forward, does it then increase the chances of a hit when it swings back?

 

[Boathook]

I've been looking for a video of an anchor (any type!) with a banana (be it Viking, Osculati or home-made), being recovered and coming over the bow roller.
My anchor does seem to arrive at the bow roller the right way round every time, but I'm curious to know if a banana will move the anchor forward slightly when it comes over the roller, reducing the chances of a topside ding or, if it does swing the anchor forward, does it then increase the chances of a hit when it swings back?

@Neeves might have something.

 

[NormanS]

Mine's a home made "bent link". No it doesn't project the anchor any further forward from the bow roller. It just automatically rotates the anchor, so that it's the right way round. It's no use unless you have sufficient distance between the bow roller and the windlass gypsy.

 

[salar]

I have the same problem, although my Delta anchor sits on a small custom bowsprit. I'm sure the Osculati swivel is a work of art, but does it really need to swivel? It's just a long chain link really, and chain links don't swivel. Wouldn't a stainless or galvanised bar work just as well and be a lot cheaper?

 

[Martin_J]

I've not made a video of the Osculati 'anchor straightener' that I bought last year, but there are a few videos online showing a similar device rotating the anchor..
Scroll part way down this page and you'll find the 'AnchorLift anchor turner kit' video..

Anchor Turner Kit 965012 (Anchors up to 80 kg / 175 lb) - AnchorLift Direct

and the first video I found on YouTube..

Edit: Added the direct link to the AnchorLift video

 

[Martin_J]

I have the same problem, although my Delta anchor sits on a small custom bowsprit. I'm sure the Osculati swivel is a work of art, but does it really need to swivel? It's just a long chain link really, and chain links don't swivel. Wouldn't a stainless or galvanised bar work just as well and be a lot cheaper?

Funny you ask about the necessity of the swivel.. I wonder the same, after all, Viking Anchors make their 'boomerang' with no swivel.
Boomerang

I could just picture that though swivelling the anchor and finding that it's turned it 180 degrees, leaving a 360 degree twist then between it and the windlass gypsy..

 

[Neeves]

If you have no twist in the chain when the anchor is seated on the bow roller then when you retreive the anchor the twists should fall out. This is the theory - but in practice the friction between the twists, that develop due to wind and tide, is too great and the anchor can thus be twisted. As you retreive most of the twists fall out. If you use Vikings Boomerang the device will naturally twists (or untwist the twists in the chain) to naturally remove the twists so that the anchor arrives on the bow roller in the same way it left the bow roller - the chain will be untwisted.

But when you install an anchor with or without a Boomerang you must follow the links from the gypsy to the shackle and ensure there are no twists. If there is a twist - the anchor will always arrive at the roller the wrong way round.

You may find you have one twist in your chain - look carefully at the chain and you will find that removal of one chain link will rectify the problem - so chop it off and reassemble the anchor.

I'm sorry but the Oscalutti bent link is an accident waiting to happen - the whole basis of a bent link is to remove moving parts and to have a swivel incorporated in the device simply introduces a weak point. The mechanism of a swivel is commonly hidden inside the swivel and you simply cannot see what is going on inside. Usually there is a shaft with a cap welded on - commonly the weld corroded and the cap falls off (and your anchor will be lost - and you anchor (as you well know) is expensive.

NormanS and the Boomerang are simple and effective. You can make one yourself - go to Thinwater's blog/website and all the dimensions of the Boomerang are there. You can make one yourself or have it made. I make mine from BIS80 - an 800 MPa steel (your chain is 350 or 400 MPa steel and hopefully your shackle is also an 800 MPa, or G80 strength) so the Boomerang is over engineered. The trouble is you then need it galvanised. You could make from Duplex stainless, but it is sometimes difficult to source. NormanS used a stainless steel rod with eyes welded to each end - so you need to weld or have the welds made for you.

However you become a proud owner of NormanS' device or a Boomerang - your anchor will arrive and be seated on your bow roller correctly every time. But do check and double check you do not have a twist in the chain between the gypsy and anchor when the anchor is on the bow roller. If you do have a twist consider that if you took one link out - would the twist disappear. One problem with chain is that every year or so you look at your chain and think the first few links are preferentially corroding - this is normal (it may be the effect of using an alloy shackle with a different alloy to the chain). You think those few links detract from the cleanliness of the rest of your yacht and you chop them off. If you chop of the wrong number you automatically introduce a twist in the chain - so consider carefully and chop off so there are no twists - especially a half twist.

I'll try to add some illustrative pictures later - but its morning in Oz, as I type, and I'm a bit time short to faff around with images - be patient. In the meantime look at Thinwater's blog/website and key in 'Boomerang' in his search function.

If you have questions - pen them, or type, now and I'll try to answer later today - knowledge is better when shared - provided it is correct, tested and accurate.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

This is one article to read:

Anchor Swivels: Caution Required - Practical Sailor

and another:

How Well Do Anchor Swivels Reduce Chain Twist? - Practical Sailor

You need read, or at least scan, all the way through each......

Jonathan

 

[NormanS]

I can't imagine why Jonathan thinks that you would need to cut a link off the chain to remove a twist. All that's needed is to lift the chain off the gypsy, and put it back on so that there's no twist.

 

[Neeves]

I can't imagine why Jonathan thinks that you would need to cut a link off the chain to remove a twist. All that's needed is to lift the chain off the gypsy, and put it back on so that there's no twist.

You don't need to cut the link off at all - you can rely on your Boomerang. Usually though those first few links are preferentially corroding and as far as I know lifting the anchor and altering the links in the gypsy still does not stop the corrosion.

Whatever suits you - I don't like corroding links, they are unsightly - but more important less strong than the uncorroded 100m - it seems silly to have the strength of your rode determined by 3 corroded links. Better to cut off corroded links bearing in mind that you want the rode to run correctly from anchor to gypsy.

Of course if you are using Duplex chain you will not have any corrosion and one link costs a lot of money - of course you lift the 50kg Ultra anchor and alter the chain in the gypsy - easy.

Jonathan

 

[NormanS]

Nobody mentioned anything about corroded links. You recommended cutting off one link in order to remove a twist in the chain. I am saying that that is entirely unnecessary. The weight or type of anchor is completely irrelevant. When the anchor is sitting on the bow roller, it is merely a case of lifting the chain off the gypsy, and replacing it without a twist. Don't make life more complicated than it already is.

 

[lustyd]

More complicated than necessary is the core of the thread. Anchors are self righting, just pull it up and pour a gin. No need for swivels, bananas, crazy links, any of this stuff. Honestly there are things in chandleries with the sole purpose of occupying those who have already got everything they need, fender clips fit this category too!

 

[Neeves]

.Anchors are self righting, just pull it up and pour a gin. No need for swivels, bananas, crazy links, any of this stuff.

 

[rotrax]

More complicated than necessary is the core of the thread. Anchors are self righting, just pull it up and pour a gin. No need for swivels, bananas, crazy links, any of this stuff. Honestly there are things in chandleries with the sole purpose of occupying those who have already got everything they need, fender clips fit this category too!

Really!!!!

Anchoring as much as I do soon showed the requirement for a 'Banana' or, as I did fit, an Osculati bent link. Mine is a large one for 10mm chain. It does not have a welded cap on the swivel part but is nicely machined in one piece, with radiused corners and should be far stronger than the chain/shackle as it is almost twice the diameter. I dismantled and checked before purchase.

The previous Delta often came up upside down, as did the current Rocna. Both 25 Kilo versions.

Not self righting in my direct experience of many, many nights on the hook in heavily tidal waters where direction change happened during time on the hook..

 

[lustyd]

OK when I said self righting I should have caveated that you can't just press the button and hope for the best. Stop the windlass for a brief moment though and they do self right. If you anchor so much you have the time to practice, I picked up the skill after only a couple of recoveries, no need to live at anchor.

 

[Neeves]

OK when I said self righting I should have caveated that you can't just press the button and hope for the best. Stop the windlass for a brief moment though and they do self right. If you anchor so much you have the time to practice, I picked up the skill after only a couple of recoveries, no need to live at anchor.

I am sure you are correct but I suspect that the individuals who operate the vessel in my picture in Post 13 spend more time on the water than any of us and I know they anchor frequently, because I see them - they don't seem to have learnt.

Anchors will only self right 'so much' there is enough friction between each link in the chain to ensure you cannot remove all twist - and the chain might be installed incorrectly ie twisted and NormanS has the solution. Modern windlass are now so fast - if there is a twist the anchor will seat on the bow roller before they can self right.

Jonathan

 

[john_morris_uk]

OK when I said self righting I should have caveated that you can't just press the button and hope for the best. Stop the windlass for a brief moment though and they do self right. If you anchor so much you have the time to practice, I picked up the skill after only a couple of recoveries, no need to live at anchor.

Our anchor certainly doesn’t self right. In fact if we’re motoring ahead as it comes to the surface it will always turn round so it comes up upside down. We’ve been living onboard for most of the time since last August and we spend most of our time at anchor. Previously when cruising we anchored a lot so it’s not lack of practice. Reversing to turn the anchor round works but it’s not always convenient to reverse in a crowded anchorage.

Our stemhead roller is too narrow to allow the shank to rotate.

It’s possible to jamb our anchor shank sideways in the cheeks of the roller though. Don’t ask me how I know but I can recount the tale of setting the kedge and using the kedge rode to pull the bower anchor out of its jambed position if you like…

 

[lustyd]

Twist in chain won't overcome the weight of an anchor trying to self right, and most twist will already have spun out as the anchor is being lifted.
I will admit that if you're pushing the button in the cockpit it might be different, but otherwise it's a very simple skill and doesn't need anything fancy to make it work.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Twist in chain won't overcome the weight of an anchor trying to self right, and most twist will already have spun out as the anchor is being lifted.
I will admit that if you're pushing the button in the cockpit it might be different, but otherwise it's a very simple skill and doesn't need anything fancy to make it work.

I don’t think you read my reply?
It’s not a matter of chain twisting or not, if the anchor won’t turn in the bow roller cheeks it ain’t going to right itself.

 

[vyv_cox]

Twist in chain won't overcome the weight of an anchor trying to self right, and most twist will already have spun out as the anchor is being lifted.
I will admit that if you're pushing the button in the cockpit it might be different, but otherwise it's a very simple skill and doesn't need anything fancy to make it work.

Not in our case. The groove in the roller was sized to take the shank of the anchor but is too wide to keep chain aligned, it simply twists in the groove. The Maxwell windlass is so fast that it generates rotation of the anchor, quite visible in clear Greek waters. Coupled with that a Boomerang will not work with a grooved roller, so for us a swivel is by far the preferred option.

Plus it is Jill's preference and as she does the foredeck I am not going to say otherwise.