Anchor choice

[Westering]

Intending to do some long-term cruising from next year, I am reveiwing my anchor arangements and would like some views please!
The boat is a Sovereign 32 - displacement and windage similar to Nich 32. There are twin bow-rollers, though rather small and rollers in need of replacement. I currently have 2x 35lb CQRs - one to chain and the other to chain-warp.
One problem is that the roller-reefing drum is mounted low on the deck (good for sail efficiency etc) but the shank of the anchor fouls the drum as it tips upwards on launch and retrieval. I cannot see any alternative to the current back-breaking practice of manhandling the whole thing out and in, but to design and fit a new s/s fitting for the rollers which will create a very-mini 'nose' to stick out further than at present. Any suggestions welcome? Has anyone any experience of through-bow arrangements as on some Malos? (YM December suggests they can jam?)
Then: which anchor? The CQR has not featured well in tests and does not self-stow well (and as I have a back problem the self-stow/launch is important to me). PBO survey fancied theSpade or Delta. Any opinions for similar boats welcomed - and how well do each self-stow/launch?
AND!!!: The Fortress came out a few years back to a lot of fanfares but hasn't featured in any recent tests - I was wondering about that as a kedge because of its relative lightness?
THANKS

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[Talbot]

My recomendation would be to have two different anchors, cause some are good in some holdings and bad in others. I have a danforth and a delta. The fortress is a good design for the kedge cause it is light, but provides good holding power. The Bruce is supposed to be good, but in all the tests I have read, they seem to creep under load . The Delta is good enough for the RNLI!

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[Salty John]

I think your anchor choice is perfect as it is - I cruised for three years full time with that arrangement on a boat very similar to a Nich 32. The CQR has the advantage of a pivoting shank which seems to help the anchor stay set at change of tide. You will get a host differing opinion, however! The problem with the roller furling drum fouling the anchors is difficult. I eventually had to raise the drum about a foot. I considered lots of other options including a short bowsprit and also spreading the anchors wider and having them deploy slightly further aft than normal. Nothing was entirely satisfactory, so I had to raise the furling drum.

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[snowleopard]

i have a delta which i find self stows very well. however when it comes up the first few inches of the shank come over the roller then the weight of the blade makes it flip over into the stowed position. this means that the shank rotates rapidly within the roller. the 35lb anchor has a flat shank about 3" wide so needs a fairly wide roller.

the spade can foul your topsides on a standard roller so may need an extension. i believe they will send you a cardboard template to see if it will fit!

i also have two fortresses, a little one as a kedge and a humungous one for extreme conditions. their light weight and ability to dismantle make them very convenient. i have however found that sometimes they won't bite at all on firm sand, skimming over the bottom like a ray. the soft mud setting works very well, so well that i have occasionally had difficulty breaking it out again.

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[trouville]

Exellent choise! The CQRs a really good anchor. For my 40foot hillyard i have it on deck attached to 35 meters 10mm chain and 150 line ready to atach to that or another.
The CQR isent the easyest to handle and in sand ive heard can drag--mines never draged
I dont use it as my bower though, a long time ago i began to use a briteny and now danforth 35lbs i have it on 45 meters 10mm chain plus a 20meter line at the ready to be added as i try never to anchor in water deeper than 15 meters. i have two bow rollers and two chain pipes i also keep 25lbs CQRand 25lbs danforth my bruce i sold--rubbish--hard to handle and bad in weed the fisherman i kept but never use now as there was no need not with weed nor rock the danforth is the best!
With 25lbs and force 6 and a bad sea runninig she held but with 70 meters of chain out! as lines harder to get in--i did wonderd when i would have leave or if the anchor would break!!
In years of use the danforth has proved exellent on all grounds and even when anchord in 30meters rock weed with only 35meters chain out , it blew but she dident move i left in the evening for corsica the danforth is really easy to handle just hold the shaft and keep the flukes open--the you cant do that as the head falls from side to side and while catting it you risk being hurt--not baddly but enought to tell it your opinion of it!!!With the danforth ive only been really thankfull to it and the fact that with a 25lbs and manuall winch can move several times in a night if need be!! and it holds!!


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[Sea Devil]

There are several sorts of bow roller on the market and one that is hinged - They are designed to fit on a flat deck - the hinged version may help you - http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...oryId=687&langId=-1&subdeptNum=197&storeNum=5
is the West Marine address but they are availble in the UK I am sure.

I had a similar problem fitting a 2nd bow roller to my Moody 36 - Now both CQRs self stow fine..

Everyone has a different favourite anchor - I did not get on with the Bruce on my boat and now have a 35lb and 45lb CQR's one all 10mm chain the other 5mtrs chain the rest warp.

My kedge is a Fortress and it is just wonderful. It's holding power is amazing and it is so easy and light to handle. Cannot belive how good it is - If I was not so old fashioned I would use one for the Bower.

<hr width=100% size=1>If you have time please visit my web site -
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.michaelbriant.com/sailing>http://www.michaelbriant.com/sailing</A>

 

[vyv_cox]

Despite what the trial results may say, most of the patent anchors will hold sufficiently well for almost any conditions that you are likely to experience. The numbers may indicate that a CQR will hold less load than, say, a Delta or Spade, but there are thousands of people around who have ridden out horrendous storms on a CQR without dragging. It seems to me that anchoring technique is far more important than the hardware. Having said that, I have a 35 lb Delta on all-chain warp on a Sadler 34 and have never had a problem with it. My kedge is a Fortress that holds extremely well but does not re-bed all that well on changes of wind or tide direction.

On your stowing problem, I also had a problem that the anchor stock fouled the reefing drum when being retrieved. I added some cheeks below the existing jaws of the bow roller, lowering the roller axle by about 3 inches. This was a cheap and effective modification.

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[jerryat]

Hi Westering,

I agree with js48, stick with your current set-up. I too have a pair of 35lb CQR's (as well as a Fortress and Bruce) and they have never dragged in the Med or Caribbean during a seven year cruise and some very hairy situations. I'm sure you will get a diverse series of answers to your question as everyone tends to support their gear, but I think you will find that most long-term cruising boats will use CQR/Delta/Bruce as their bower, with other types as kedges/back-ups. I'd save your money and get a Bruce or Danforth as a kedge.

Cheers
Jerry


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[webcraft]

Recently chartered a boat with a Delta in warm climes, and every time I dived to check the anchor it had dragged across the seabed on its side . . . never saw the whole thing decently buried.

My Spade on the other hand regularly comes up with a big ball of seabed still attached, sets well even in kelp and always resets after a swing.

- Nick

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[wagenaar]

The post about the Spade is interesting. You could consider buying an aluminium Spade as a main anchor. The designer of the Spade is of the opinion that it is the form of the anchor and not the weight that determines if an anchor sets properly. He explains this theory in his webside. I think it remarkable that everybody seems to stick to steel-anchors, independent of the type. The results of the Fortress also seem to indicate, that it is mainly the form and less the weight that determines if an anchor sets properly.
My own experiences with a CGR are mixed. It dragged on a sandy bottom in Denmark, but functioned OK in other situations. I used a Fortress as a kedge and also here the same, mixed results. I used it only in the Med and I had problems getting it out in Trappani (W-coast of Sicily) and it dragged on Lipari (one of the Lipari-Islands, N. of Sicily).

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[Kurukulla]

I keep my boat (40ft) in Rome, Italy. I have a Bruce with 50m chain spliced to 50m of octoplait as bower anchor (can't remember size) and a Fortress with 10m chain and 50m octoplait as kedge (or as extra bower set in V for strong conditions). I also have a huge Fortress and a Fisherman (never used) for emergencies. The Bruce is a great alround anchor and is particularly good for mediterranean marinas where you have to drop the bower anchor and go stern to. Most importantly in this situation, the Bruce takes almost instantaneously and can be easily be let down on the electric windlass by my wife in the bows. It self stows easly on raising. The Fortress is fantastic - takes almost instantaneously and digs itself in very deep - so deep in fact that I have difficulty in breaking it out. I should say though that most of my anchoring is done on sand or mud bottoms.

With regard to remarks in other messages about the relationship of weight to penetration and holding power of anchors. There is a common belief that holding resistance relates solely to weight. In fact the holding power of an anchor (in sand, mud or gravel) is related to the frictional and cohesive properties of the "wedge" of material (sand, mud or gravel) which is generated in front of the flukes or plate. The deeper an anchor is able to pull itself in then the greater the holding power. In plough design (in agriculture!!) this is called suction and generally speaking (if I remember correctly) the resistance of a plough goes up in proportion to the cube of the depth. So very small changes in depth have very large effects on the resistance ("holding power"). The penetration of a plough is dependent on many factors of which weight is only one. Of great influence is the sharpness of the penetrating edge and its geometry (to create the suction). If you notice, the Fortress anchor has very sharp points and this (combined with its geometry) would explain to me why (at least in my experience!) it penetrates so well in sand.

Anyway, all the best - all these remarks must be very confusing and I hope that you make some sense of them all.
Kind regards,
Lawrence

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[hylas]

For making the choice of the Good anchoring stuff, I will not base my reasoning on OPINIONS but in technical FACTS...

To select an anchor, I will base my choice on three points:
- Price
- Weigth
- Efficiency

PRICE:

Your anchor is your best insurance:
and, like your insurance, it seems expensive only before the accident occurs.
- When the weather will be very bad and that your boat will drag towards the rocks, it will be too late to regret the tens of Pounds saved on the purchase price.
- If your boat is tossed on the shore, then it will be some thousands of Pounds which will make the difference..
- SECURITY and quiet nights at anchor doesn’t have a price..

WEIGHT:

The weight of your anchor has nearly no relation with the holding, holding is related to :
– The stability of your anchor
– Its surface area
– The shape of the holding surface
All recent tests have proved that aluminum anchors have the same holding than steel anchors of the same size (Practical Sailor, Bateaux, Voiles magazine.)

Meanwhile, WEIGHT is very important for the penetration of the anchor.

If you choose an aluminum anchor, privilege stables models, those with a penetrating angle like a « chisel » and with heavily ballasted tip. (I will come back on this topic latter on)

EFFICIENCY:

Penetration:
– To ensure a good holding, an anchor must first penetrate ,
– Regardless of the sea bottom type,
– As fast and deep as possible.

Holding:
– Regardless of the weather conditions, the anchor doesn’t break free
– Anchor stability
– Shape of the holding surface

PENETRATION:
Penetration is related to two factors:
1° - Penetrating angle : I will define the working angle of four classical tools:
a) Spreader: - a tool forming an angle with the material in front of it of less than 70 degres.
b) Scraper: - a tool forming an angle with the material close to 90 degres
c) Chisel: - a tool forming an angle with the material in front of it of about 120 degres
d) Razor: - a tool forming an angle with the material in front of it of more than 150°
- Out of these four tools, only the "chisel" has been concieved for penetration.. ask the Carpenter...
- The penetrating edge has to be as sharp as possible...

2° Pressure on the tool:
More the pressure, easiest will be the penetration... Obvious...
Look at the weight repartition of some classical anchors: (from Practical Boat Owner, page 80 n° 391 – July 1999)
Fortress Bügel Britany Danforth CQR Delta Bruce SPADE
15 % 16% 17% 18% 18% 28% 38% 50%

The anchor having both the right penetrating « chisel like » angle and the most heavier tip, will have the maximum chance to penetrate difficult sea bottoms such as hard sand, coral and weed…

HOLDING:

Holding is related to two factors:
–1° - Stability
–2° - Holding surface area and its shape

1° - STABILITY:

In this regard, the conclusion of John Knox (P. 81 - PBO n° 427 July 2002)confirm completely my own observations as well as the results of the tests done by the French magazine "Voiles magazine":
- Generaly speaking , ALL HINGED ANCHORS are unstable (Plow anchors, fluke anchors…) Under strong pulls, they cork-screw and break free..
-Stable anchors of the new generation could slightly drag under strong wind gusts, but they keep a constant high holding and they will not break free sudently... (Very SAFE behaviour)
Holding surface: Try to pull one square meter of steel on the bottom, this is quite easy.. Now bury this plate of steel in the bottom an try again.. Holding has nearly no relation with the weight, but is related to:
a) - The surface area perpendicular with the direction of the pull..
b) The shape of this surface
a. a "wing" shape has an "holding" coeeficient of 0.1
b. a "chevron" shape has an "holding" coeeficient of 0.5
c. a "flat" shape has an "holding" coeeficient of 1.1
d. a "concave" shape has an "holding" coeeficient of 1.7
Or a surface with a "Chevron" shape (CQR – Delta – Kobra...) must be more than three time the surface of a concave shape (SPADE) to have the same holding..

As simple as this.. but:

A good anchor must hold regardless of wind and /or current change of direction.
It sould not have the possibility to become tangled with the anchoring rode.
It should not require any specific anchoring technic.
It should ensure a snug bow fit
Used with an electric windlass, it should ensure a self launching an retrieving .
It should be very strong…

As you may see, I didn't talk about one single brand name.. this will be YOUR resposibility..

Take all models, an check which one has all thoses characteristics.. Then you can be sure you have made the GOOD choice..


Fair winds and peaceful anchorages

Alain D'HYLAS

(designer of the SPADE anchor!...)



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[hylas]

some more comments

I would like to add some personal comments on this subject:

We are talking here about LONG TERM CRUISING. The anchoring gear requirement would be slightly different from the standard cruising one. In "standard" cruising, one must spend most of the time in harbours and marinas, anchoring from time to time with settled weather and in very well known places where holding is reputabily good..

In long term cruising, you could have to anchor in difficult grounds such as Patagonia or Artic seas (see www.morgancloud.com ) or to anchor in less protected places.. a GOOD anchor is a must...

Since the 15 of August, I didn't spend one single night in a marina.. therefor my anchor is a very important matter for me...

Now, Talbot says "My recomendation would be to have two different anchors, cause some are good in some holdings and bad in others"
This is a very old belief.. I have a slightly different idea on this subject:
Nearly all anchors are good in a good holding bottom, normal sand, sticky mud.. and nearly all are inefficient in difficult sea grounds: hard sand – Coral – weed..
In some places, regardless of the type of the anchor, it is impossible to anchor: soft mud, boulders, flat rock..

- My own selection would be for an anchor which is good for difficult conditions: hard sand, coral and weed.. because this anchor will be also good in easy bottoms..

JS 48 says " The CQR has the advantage of a pivoting shank which seems to help the anchor stay set at change of tide"

Once again I have a slightly different opinion: - The pivoting shank of the CQR is a BIG DISADVANTAGE .. it doesn't help during a change of tide (or current) . On the veering tests done by the U.S. magazine "Practical Sailor", the only two anchors which realign themselves with the new direction of pull, without loosing their grip had a fixed shank (namely the SuperMax and the Spade) As a consequence of a strong hinge, the CQR has also 62% of its weight on the hinge and shank, for only 18% of the anchor's total weight of the anchor tip. Very bad weight repartition .. This is why the CQR is an UNSTABLE anchor and can break free and drag under strong pulls..

Yes, the Fortress has a very good holding, mostly if you compare it with steel anchors of the same WEIGHT.. just because the surface area is about three time bigger.. but I will not use it for long term cruising as vyv cox pointed out " but does not re-bed all that well on changes of wind or tide direction." and also as Snowleopard says " they won't bite at all on firm sand, skimming over the bottom like a ray. the soft mud"
The Fortress can be usefull as a kedge anchor but never as a main one..

About the problem of the furling drum.. one possibility would be to move (or reinstal a new one) the bow roller slightly sideway..

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[Westering]

THANKS VERY MUCH EVERYONE !! This certainly seemed to spark some interest -which was fun, and I am feeling that my thoughts re a Spade for Bower, Fortress for kedge and keep one of my CQRs as back up is probably the way the go.
On August 1st 2006 I shall retire and be off to try it all out...!

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[branko]

I must very thanks for very good explanation. Would you give me your suggestion regarding my new anchor.
My boat is Bavaria 40 ( 9 tons deplacement) and I have 20 kg Bruce ( not original - FHD Plastimo) and chain 60 m 10mm. Boat is cruising in Croatian waters were dominate sand bottom. As, like any other, wish best solution I decide to change it with Spade, but .... it is difficult to find it .In Croatia and in North Italy you can find CQR copy, Bruce copy, Danforth copy and Cobra as everybody want to sell copy for genuine but not Spade.
If you agree with me that Spade is solution can you propose me anchor weight for my boat and maybe as Spade designer you know where I can buy it.
Best regards

<hr width=100% size=1>Branko

 

[duncan]

you will find the information you want <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.spade-anchor.com>here</A> Branko and some dealer network information is on the site too.

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[Anonymous]

Have you had problems with the Bruce? In sand it is reputed to be very good and it re-sets more quickly than most other types. Have you considered simply supplementing it with one of a very different kind, such as a Fortress, and choose the most appropriate according to circumstances, or put out both?

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[charles_reed]

Get one of the self-stowing anchors like the Delta or the Bruce. I've found the Delta holds better than the CQR and though the Bruce has the least holding, weight for weight of any patent anchor (the palm for inefficiency being held by the fisherman) it resets better than any others.

My bower is a CQR on 65m chain + 50m warp and the two kedges are a delta and a Danforth each on 25m chain + 50 m warp and I anchor about 200 times a year.

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[branko]

I decide to change Bruce after few analises in reputated magasines. Bruce give worst results in comparation with others. It was a new for me as I think before that Bruce was best choice( and this is common oppinion here in Croatia). I must say that I have problem with Bruce only on the flat stone bottom and in the sand with grass bottoms.

<hr width=100% size=1>Branko

 

[wiggy]

My vote for worst anchore (excluding fishermans) is the Brittany, its really only good for mounting on the wall of some tarty pub by the sea

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