Anchor chain

Jock89

Jock89

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'evening all...
I want to buy a completely new anchoring set-up in about 2 months time. Looking on the Internet for stainless-316 chain suppliers in UK at present but still don't have all the answers I need.
Can the panel recommend a supplier in UK, obviously at a competetive price, & what exactly should I be looking for, i.e...what should be stamped on the links that signifies the quality standard.?
I know that good chain should be calibrated, but does that mean it's actually been tested as well, & does that mean the chain is 'certificated' in any way.?

60-70m of SS-316 is going to cost me a packet no matter where I buy it...even on ebay it's £1200...but it's difficult to see/assess the quality of the chain...but maybe I shouldn't be looking on ebay for my main anchor-chain.!!??

I know Crosby gear & quality well, but the UK suppliers couldn't be bothered to reply to my email. To get guaranteed quality, where should I be buying.?
Thanks for any pointers chaps...
Jock
 
unless there are aesthetic reasons for stainless, I'd stick with galvanised.

Jimmy Green, link here (geddit ?)
have got all the info.

Certificated chain is what they supply - just ask for the chitty. Uncertificated is likely to be the famous "Torch" brand....


Calibration is a matter of matching the winch gypsy to the chain. Speak with JG.
 
>stainless-316 chain

As far as I know 316 is above water stainless. There is a below water stainless which is something like 321 and is used on oil rigs. The reason I mention it is that a yacht here broke free when it's 316 chain parted due to crevice corrosion. I'd stick with ordinary chain. Quite why they sell 316 chain when it's seemingly 'not fit for purpose' I don't know, except it's cheaper than the underwater grade.
 
There was a big discussion on this quite recently (if only I could find it) with some professional comments from Vyv Cox.
As I recall, stainless (ie stain resistant) steel relies on an oxide coating to keep it shiny so that below water it can degrade to an extent. In particular, the welds are prone to corrosion.as mentioned by Kellys Eye. The best grade you will get is 316L and each link should be stamped.
The only arguments for stainless is that it's pretty and slippier than galvanised but that's not much comfort on a wild and stormy night..............
 
I buy it from the only remaining UK manufacturer, Griff Chains Ltd, Dudley, 01384 569415.

They will also fit an enlarged end link so you can use a properly sized shackle.
 
>the welds are prone to corrosion.as mentioned by Kellys Eye.

Out of interest in the incident here the crevice corrosion was in the links. We've had the same with a 316 stainless pin (wind vane) that has no welds and spends most of it's life under water.
 
Failure of a stainless steel chain was reported in YM a couple of issues ago. It was clear that the failure mode was crevice corrosion and Nigel Calder attributed this to the materials selection, which an 18/10 type. I beg to differ with him, a very rare opportunity. The photographs showed very clearly that there was a problem with the forging, probably done at too low a temperature. The joint in each case shown looked very typical of this, in no way did it look like the almost perfect forged joint that we are familiar with in carbon steel chains.

In general, well-made stainless steel chain can be as strong as decent galvanised steel but may tend to be a little more brittle, i.e. has less elasticity. This would rarely be sufficient to cause failure in normal service, as in general chain is far stronger than the force that any anchor can sustain.

The only advantage of stainless steel is that it will not suffer surface rusting. There are no downsides so far as use under water is concerned, after all any galvanised carbon steel component will always rust before a stainless one does. Personally I cannot see that this sole benefit justifies paying the enormous extra cost. I would buy a European-made galvanised chain to DIN 766, Italian-made ones seem to be pretty good. Bradney Chain get good reports on these forums.
 
If you can get to Northern SPain, I can get you SS Calibrated, test certificated 10mm for 10 euros a mtr. (Normally 27 !!! . we have a good 'contact') minimum 65 mtrs.
It is excellent. As for benefits, a lot imho..
It IS slippy, it stows easier, it cleans easier, it flows OUT easier than galv, especially as the galv starts to corode.
Using a deckwash on it is simplicity as the crappo falls off no worries, most mud etc is gone by the time the chain is hauled.

Wouldnt go back to galv now.
Joe
 
Hi Vyv
Yes, if you NEED to change your chain, whiche we did - we had 8mm.. then it was a consideration for us.. and at that price - and the fact we needed to move the whole anchor locker back 8 feet aghh !!.. it was well worth it.
BUT, to change for no real reason would be folly.. AND as you say, certainly NOT at UK prices.
The beauty of here is that most of the trawlers now use SS chain for the easy cleaning, so the commercial chandlers (Pombo Commercial (Effectos Navales) at Puero Oza for example) have literally 1000's of metres of the stuff.. so the price is great, if you go with cash and non yottie clothing lol...
Joe
 
Thanks very much for all the comments fellas.!
I was hoping that the majority of comments would be coming out strongly in favour of 1 or the other, so I'm still undecided.
Would I be right in thinking that it's really just the UK cost of good SS chain that prevents a lot more people from using it.?

I'm not bothered about how pretty it looks or anything like that, or even about a slight loss of say, stretch, as I would hope that over 60-70m the catenary effect would be looking after me anyway.?

One of the things that's pushing me towards buying expensive SS chain is that when I retire in a year or so & take up full-time cruising, my income will be severely reduced so whenever possible I like to 'buy the best', while I'm still working, & won't 'feel the pinch' in a few years time. Does that make sense.?
This doesn't extend to say...cars or watches & stuff that's way out of my bracket, but with items like this I don't mind the extra expense, i.e...but only if it's really worth it, hence the initial post.

Cap'nSlartys reasons are why it could be worth it, to me anyway as, if I'm on my own the SS slipperiness of 60-70m going down all by itself is a major bonus.
Unfortunately I'm not able to take advantage of Slartys good 'contact' for the chain, as the boat's in S.Wales, & I'm still in Cairo, until August I think, & the carriage would be a deal-killer.
Thanks again for all the comments.!
Jock
 
I have just oredered 100m of 1/2" chsin in southern Spain, there is no way I would go for stainless, no need, galvanised has done me well for many years, so why change? Never had a problem with cleaning the chain, (have a decent sized pump) never had a problem with it running out or in (have a well designed chain locker) so I will stick with cheaper galvo. Cost of re-galvanising every minimum ten to fifteen years not restrictive (thats if you anchor a lot).
 
Hiya Colin. I got my latest 60metre chain off the forum, as I did my previous chain, except that one had joins in it. Well it did when I'd finnished with it. I thort my original 20 metres a bit palteryand adding rope, more trouble than worth. Latest gift is a shore lead, including meter. I gave a good few metres of cable away, the other day and a radar waiting to go to another.
Had a fine day out on a Forum M boat today. Loads of stuff just goes around and around.
 
Stainless is perfectly fine for an anchor rode and it is becoming very popular of late. Stainless is definitely NOT good for permanent mooring though.

Any 10mm stainless chain for 10 euro a metre is made in china and likely to have poor calibration, if any, and be weak. There is absolutely no way a quality SS chain costs that little unless someone is doing it at cost (I'd but big bucks on it that it would actually have to be below cost). It is also likely to only be mig welded around the outside of the wire by a AA battery not 10000W's and through welded like quality chain. Use at your own risk including winch repairs.

You can get a Grade 50 Stainless chain. A G50 will have about 50% higher break load than a G30. It costs. 80% of the worlds boats inc offshore cruisers would be using a G30 steel chain.

Europe makes some good chain, support your locals or lose them and the quality products they make.

Just be a bit careful how you read the JG website, it has some weird things there. Any chain that will fit a Lewmar will also fit every other manufacturers winch that has a gypsy to suit. The same applies to the rest of the winchmakers 'special' chains. It's interesting to see lately many EU companies 'splitting up' chains to differing winch makers and at the same time increasing some prices. Who made the winch has sweet feck all to do with what chain will fit, it's the individual gypsy that dictates the size of chain. A chain the fits, say a Quick DIN766 gypsy will fit every other winch makers DIN766 sized gypsy. I see a nice low level scam starting to appear I think. Don't ya just love corporate greed.

Actually watch Lewmar, some of the chains they specific for some of their winches doesn't actually fit at all well. They know they have a problem but have yet to acknowledge it. Stear clear of any of their 'ISO' spec chains, the DIN is fine though. The 'ISO' they use, very incorrectly, relates to a standard that didn't even make it off the books before being canned years back. Why they have suddenly decided to use it who knows, they certainly don't, I've asked. 'ISO' is a bunch of people not a chain specification itself.

All reputable chain makers calibrate and proof test all their chains as standard before it leaves the factory. 'Un-calibrated' is code for 'made in China'.

I don't know this outfit from a bar of soap but I know they do Maggi Group made in Italy chains. They are a top quality manufacturer. http://www.boatgeardirect.co.uk/
Just sussing their site and the pricing looks pretty good, for the UK anyway. Maybe worth a browse if you're interested.

If your galvanised chain lasts 15-20 years between re-galvanisings you have a big problem. You're working too much and not using your boat enough /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I sell over 100,000 metes of chain a year mostly in to the marine industry.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Any 10mm stainless chain for 10 euro a metre is made in china and likely to have poor calibration, if any, and be weak. There is absolutely no way a quality SS chain costs that little unless someone is doing it at cost (I'd but big bucks on it that it would actually have to be below cost). It is also likely to only be mig welded around the outside of the wire by a AA battery not 10000W's and through welded like quality chain. Use at your own risk including winch repairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Gmac
The chain I got IS calibrated and I was shown the certidication.. the links are thoroughly welded, I know, we cut some in half to make lifting points on the dinghy davits.. I have absolutely no qualms using it at all.
As for cost, well, its a case of cash and their need for it, also, they sell VAST amounts of it - commercially, not to yotties. It is used by the commercial fishermen here.. getting galv here is extremely difficult too, reason, no one wants it anymore commercially.
The price WAS over 20 euros a metre,, a simple deal, no tax etc.. cash in pocket... it is Spain ya know lol..

Either way, I am deleriously happy with it.

Joe
 
>Stainless is perfectly fine for an anchor rode and it is becoming very popular of late. Stainless is definitely NOT good for permanent mooring though.

Err, maybe OK for weekend sailors but don't forget many long term cruisers spend most of the year at anchor, ten or eleven months a year is not unusual i.e. effectively a long term mooring. The incident I mentioned happened after the chain had been submerged for only seven months. IMO it is not fit for purpose on a liveabord cruising boat unless it spends most time in a marina.
 
AISI 316 stainless steel is an 'underwater' grade. It has an additional 2% molybdenum over AISI 304 that gives additional protection against chloride pitting, and incidentally against crevice corrosion.

So far as the latter is concerned, and your earlier post, where is the crevice in chain? If the failure you refer to was indeed caused by crevice corrosion, then something created the crevice in the first place. This could either be a forging defect, such as the one I refer to above, or a weld defect, discussed by GMac.

My propshaft, probably yours and the vast majority of others, is made from 316 stainless steel, is submerged for years at a time, and has never failed. It is demonstrably perfectly suitable for underwater use.
 
From azom.com:

316 is usually regarded as the standard “marine grade stainless steel”, but it is not resistant to warm sea water. In many marine environments 316 does exhibit surface corrosion, usually visible as brown staining. This is particularly associated with crevices and rough surface finish.

It was the links of the chain that corroded here - pitting leads to crevice corrosion in salt water. If you want to avoid corrosion you must use an anode (hence andodes/prop shaft anodes). Put another way take off all your anodes and see what happens to the prop shaft.

I suppose it's all a bit academic, if somebody doesn't anchor much and wants to use 316 stainless chain fine but I wouldn't if the boat is to be anchored most of the time. I wonder how many anodes you would need on 300 feet of chain?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Gmac
The chain I got IS calibrated and I was shown the certidication.. the links are thoroughly welded, I know, we cut some in half to make lifting points on the dinghy davits.. I have absolutely no qualms using it at all.
As for cost, well, its a case of cash and their need for it, also, they sell VAST amounts of it - commercially, not to yotties. It is used by the commercial fishermen here.. getting galv here is extremely difficult too, reason, no one wants it anymore commercially.
The price WAS over 20 euros a metre,, a simple deal, no tax etc.. cash in pocket... it is Spain ya know lol..

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah... the old Wink Wink deal, I know it well (unless the taxman is watching and then I deny all knowledge /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) That explains the extremely sharp pricing. Nice.

[ QUOTE ]
Err, maybe OK for weekend sailors but don't forget many long term cruisers spend most of the year at anchor, ten or eleven months a year is not unusual i.e. effectively a long term mooring. The incident I mentioned happened after the chain had been submerged for only seven months. IMO it is not fit for purpose on a liveabord cruising boat unless it spends most time in a marina.

[/ QUOTE ]
Anchors come up and down, sometimes many times a day, sometimes once a week occasionally once every 2 weeks, very occasionally a bit longer. Anything down for 7 months is 'moored' not 'anchored' so I'm not surprised they had an issue. We do moorings here as well and any we find with any SS components are instantly condemned even if the SS went in last week. As I specifically mentioned above - Do not use SS in permanent moorings.

When using SS in an anchoring application we have zero indication it is a problem. Sure you'll hear a few stories but exceptionally rearly are they 1st hand and often have something else involved which doesn't get mentioned. Often these days the chain is not made by long standing reputable manufacturers so we just don't know if it was the SS we thought it was to begin with. You want to see how the number of bog std steel chain failures is increasing, it's becoming an issue. The reason is well know to many - country of manufacture. Same applies to SS as well.

How many have some SS fittings which seem to have rusted up or stained real easy in the last couple of years? Many I would think. We get EU made SS fittings and asian made SS fittings and I can assure you all with certainty they are not using the same quality 316, far from it.

We've seen a bit of SS chain go from brand new 12mm to 3mm odd in 6-7 months and all hell broke out about our dodgy chain. On investigation what did we find? It spent it's life living on bare carbon fibre. Carbon + SS + saltwater = battery. Locker lined, new chain fitted (at owner expense) and 4 years later it still looks like new.

To get nasty happening to SS you need an electrolyte like saltwater. Retrieve anchor and it dries out so electrolyte gone and any issues associated.

Actually my SS expert wonders why everyone uses 316 when he reckons 304 is better. Then again most think SS is a wonder product when it clearly isn't quite as flash as many think. One day when everyone realises this the retailers won't be able to charge the premium most do for SS gear.
 
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