Anchor chain supplier

[Pavalijo]

I need to purchase 8mm DIN766 chain.

I understand that Bradney now import from the far east and want to ensure that I acquire chain that is manufactured to a good standard. I did read somewhere that the Bradney imported chain is of good quality but the far east source does not fill me with confidence - am I wrong? Any recommendations for other suppliers and sources please?

Also what standard should I seek - I had thought that "grade 40" should be specified, but is there anything else I should consider in terms of quality standards?

Many thanks,
Paul

 

[vyv_cox]

I tested a large number of chains for a YM article. The results are on my website in abbreviated form. There may be one UK manufacturer of 8 mm chain, Griff Chains, but since they initially refused to send me a sample and then failed to reply to any of my questions I cannot recommend them. In general the Chinese manufactured chain did considerably better than the European stuff. Most chain you buy as Chinese Grade 30 performs well into Grade 40 specification.

Bradney (now part of William Hackett) have bought their smaller size chains from China for some time. The factories there have the best chain making machinery in the world, German built and with Grerman technicians.

Grade 40 from either of these importers will be fine, but chain supplied by Bainbridge to your local chandlery will almost certainly be the same stuff made on the same machines.

 

[Pavalijo]

Thanks Vyv,
I will look at your website and then maybe get back in touch with Bradney.

My friend who first recommended them said that he watched them galvanise chain in Birmingham when he collected his in 2004 - around the time they advised me that they stopped manufacturing there.

I had an irrational aversion to the idea of Italian manufactured chain dating back to my rusty 1980's Alfa Sud, whose suspension collapsed from a rusting wishbone about 3 weeks before the recall notice arrived (fortunately I was doing less than 10mph at the time!)

 

[vyv_cox]

I broke the back axle of my Alfa Sud, carrying a couple of hundredweight of coal in the boot. The corrosion was incredible.

Maggi Chain has a good reputation and if you wanted Grade 70 they may well be the only European manufacturer. The chain I bought in Corsica may have been theirs and the galvanising only lasted three years.

 

[Pavalijo]

Thanks Vyv,
it seems that Bradney no longer offer grade 40. I will try my chandlery and see if they can identify the factory that their supplier sources from.

 

[[2574]]

Earlier this year Jimmy Green marine was supplying G70 8mm Italian chain, might be worth a phone call to see if he still is.

 

[J Neeves]

Maggi make a G40 and I think Jimmy Green have moved to supply Maggi chain. Given Vyv's results, the fact that no-one ever reports of chain failure and most people historically have used G30, or something that is not even specified then unless you are going down in size from what is recommended and know the G40 is a good cut above 'Vyv's' G30 I wonder why the G40 focus.

Maggi's G70 is of excellent quality, in terms of strength - but cannot comment yet on the life of its galvanising.

An issue with Maggi chain, and maybe its an issue with all DIN chain, some or all of the 3/8th 2t gal bow lifting shackles do not fit the links. It is possible to have stainless shackles that fit but they are commonly made to a 2:1 or 2.5:1 safety factor vs the 5:1 or 6:1 of gal lifting shackles.

We do not see much DIN chain here, our chain is metric but to a different size (and 3/8th inch shackles fit) and maybe Vyv can comment.

Jonathan

 

[Pavalijo]

My G40 focus is simply this - for a relatively small additional cost I can attach my boat to its anchor by chain that is stronger than the commonly used G30. I do not have sufficient experience or knowledge to purchase the standard product and feel confident that it will stand up to the conditions that we might encounter. The forces involved are beyond my comprehension.

Vyv tested the Bradney Chinese manufactured (using German technology) G30 chain and reports that it is closer to a G40 standard. I have not ruled out this chain, but want to exhaust the possibility of finding a good quality G40 chain before committing. If G30 is adequate, why is G70 manufactured?

I have not looked at the availability or cost of a new gypsy to fit the Lofrans Cayman 1000w windlass but are you suggesting, Neeves, that a metric gypsy and chain would ensure that I can acquire a superior shackle to that available for DIN766? Is this a good time to change that gypsy before I commit to new chain?

I apologise if I appear naive but I am new to owning rather than chartering a boat and would prefer to ask silly questions than to make a silly mistake that I later regret!

PS - the 8mm Maggi G70 from Jimmy Green has a large connector attached to one end (presumably of at least the same strength as the chain) to allow a larger shackle to be fitted. I did think that if I went for this option I would have to specify this connector to both ends to enable me to end for end the chain to prolong the life of the galvanising, which might not be as good as the chain quality according to one source.

 

[J Neeves]

Your enquiry is not silly nor naive,

Most people would use G70 such that they may use a smaller and hence lighter link. This allows them to either carry more chain or carry a lighter rode (or a combination of both). However this sometimes means buying a new gypsy (unless you are lucky and specify when you buy the windlass). However you are looking at 8mm chain and I am not aware of a 6mm G70 (though there is a 1/4 inch made by ACCO in America). The Maggi 8mm G70 chain I have tested is superior to the ACCO 5/16th inch G70 product in terms of strength.

I am aware of the connector link offered by Maggi. This is a common (most of the European lifting chain makers offer) high tensile link. The manufacturers of these links, for example Van Greef, raise their hands in horror at these links being galvanised. However Maggi seem to know what they are about and one would assume the link has been tested and is compatible with the chain (but I have seen no test results). Its a critical component - I'd like to see an independent test prior to commenting.

I have never heard of a chain failing through failure of the wire, though there are apocryphal stories of unbranded chains breaking. The only chain I have heard actually breaking, and I asked on a thread a few months ago, was a branded G40 chain and it failed at the weld. A poor weld is as likely in G30, as G40 as G70. The only answer is to buy a reputable product from a reputable supplier and buy Proof Tested chain. Proof Tested means it has been tested to 2 times the Working Load Limit (which is half the minimum breaking load). But anchoring is all about sleeping soundly and if a G40 will encourgae this for you - go for G40.

Lofrans have a whole host of gypsies for their windlass and I am sure that if you need to change the gypsy - they will have one to suit. But a DIN G30, G40 and G70 chain of the same wire size will use the same gypsy.

My comment on shackles is purely cautionary. If you buy G40 it has a WLL of 1t. A common shackle is a galvanised bow shackle of 3/8th inch, if rated for lifting (the best gal shackles to buy) they can be made to a WLL of 1t or 2t. However they look identical except they are embossed with the WLL. The 2t shackles from Peerless, Campbell, Crosby etc are individually Proof Tested to 2 times WLL and are commonly made to a 5:1 or 6:1 safety factor. These shackles, the ones I mention are made in America (I think Van Greef in Holland make something similar). The 1t shackles seem to all come from China and are batch tested, say 1:100.

The shackle is cheap, compared to the chain, and to have a chain of WLL 1t, Proof tested to 2t and used with a 1t shackle that has not been Proof Tested looks false economy. The 2t shackle looks a better option. However on checking the 2t 3/8th inch shackles do not fit Maggi's G40 nor G70 chain (which is why they are supplying the connector link for the G70). These shackles might fit other DIN chains, I do not know - we do not get them here. So be cautious.

Jonathan

Edit:

I have been buying my gal, bow shackles from a UK company www.tecni-lift.com - Vyv gave me the contact, they have provided an excellent service (but I am sure there are others - but not in Oz and buying from America involves horrendous courier charges. Americans do not like to use the much more economical US Post - bizarre)

 

[vyv_cox]

On the problem of getting galvanised shackles and C-links to fit DIN chain, if the last link of the chain is squeezed a little longitudinally in a vice it will round it slightly, enabling the fitting to pass through. Would have negligible effect on the strength of the chain.

So far as metric and DIN standards are concerned I don't know. The tolerances of ISO and DIN differ, details on the website. I have discussed this at length with a well-known NZ chain supplier and we came to no conclusion. I have seen UK suppliers claim DIN in one paragraph and a couple of ISO standards in the next, so they either know more than I do or they don't!

 

[vyv_cox]

I have been buying my gal, bow shackles from a UK company www.tecni-lift.com - Vyv gave me the contact, they have provided an excellent service (but I am sure there are others - but not in Oz and buying from America involves horrendous courier charges. Americans do not like to use the much more economical US Post - bizarre)

I wanted to test a couple of the C-links sold by West Marine. The company making them do not give too much away on their website but it appears that they are quenched and tempered alloy steel similar to the Crosby ones. They cost a few dollars each but the shipping cost to UK was £70! So I didn't bother.

 

[J Neeves]

Thanks Vyv,

The fact that Maggi have gone to the trouble of sourcing and galvanising a HT chain link for their G70 and many have larger links welded to G70 suggests they might not endorse the same technique for G70.

I imagine cracking the gal if you squeeze the link does not really matter as most of us cut that end link off annually anyway.

 

[vyv_cox]

I imagine cracking the gal if you squeeze the link does not really matter as most of us cut that end link off annually anyway.

Many years ago I used to test galvanised sheet to british standards test methods. The sheet was doubled back on itself and squeezed flat in a vice. If any galvanising cracked or flaked it was a fail. Decent gavanising should easily withstand a slight squeeze and deformation.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

These guys are anchor specialists and far and away the cheapest I have found.

http://www.boatgeardirect.co.uk/id1.html

 

[doug748]

These guys are anchor specialists and far and away the cheapest I have found.

http://www.boatgeardirect.co.uk/id1.html

I have just bought a large shackle from them and had to ring this morning.

I mentioned the chain to the helpful chap and he said they have:

8mm G30 (Chinese) @ £3.5 per m
8mm G40 (Italian) @ £4.85 per m To the Din standard mentioned.

He felt the galvanising was better on the G40.

Says they have "several hundred tons" in stock.

 

[Pavalijo]

These guys are anchor specialists and far and away the cheapest I have found.

http://www.boatgeardirect.co.uk/id1.html

Thanks Murphy - you have just saved me £95! Looks like I will purchase Maggi Catene Aqua 4 (grade 40) 8mm DIN766 chain from this source. 80m for £428 delivered.

Edit - and thanks Doug (your post arrived before I refreshed the page)

 

[J Neeves]

It is not entirely clear:

Maggi is Italian but Italian is not necessarily Maggi.

It is unlikely there are many but there might be more than one chain maker in Italy. I have a brochure for Maggi and they do not claim to make a 6mm (nor a 7mm) DIN chain (but my brochure might be old). Their chain is also branded 'Aqua 4'.

Jonathan

 

[Champagne Murphy]

Thanks Murphy - you have just saved me £95! Looks like I will purchase Maggi Catene Aqua 4 (grade 40) 8mm DIN766 chain from this source. 80m for £428 delivered.

Edit - and thanks Doug (your post arrived before I refreshed the page)

You're welcome!
It's well worth a visit there if you have time. A real man shop, containers full of anchors! They do a lot of stuff for heavy stuff like oil as well as buoys for harbours etc

 

[gianenrico]

I might be considered biased, as I live some 20 miles from the Maggi factory, so BEWARE!!

WhenI bought the new boat in 2006 (40') I went straight to the factory and bought 75 meters of 8mm Grade 70 chain.
Never had a problem.

MIND YOU: the calibrated ISO 766 chain has TWO different sizes for the 10mm chain (and for one other size, too, but can't remember which, it is in all the manufacturer's tables) as one is plainly metric and the other comes from imperial measuring. So better be sure when You order.

For a friend of mine I bought in 2006 from the Maggi factory a 10mm shackle to join 25 meters of Grade 40 to his existing chain: last summer, as the older chain was in bad conditions, I had to work 45 minutes to cut lose the shackle: no corrosion whatsoever.

Please be also advised that other Italian manufacturers, such as Catenificio Rigamonti, produce Grade 70 chains. In my understanding it all comes down to a different heat treatment of the steel.


As for corrosion in Alfasud cars, You are quite right: that was a State owned company and financed by the taxpayers, with a factory established in a genuinely agricultural area around Naples.
Maggi, Rigamonti and the like are privately owned SME Companies fighting in the global market and respecting environmental, social security etc. European and Italian laws.

 

[Pavalijo]

It is not entirely clear:

Maggi is Italian but Italian is not necessarily Maggi.

Jonathan

Thanks Jonathan. I did e-mail Boatgeardirect and they confirmed that the Italian grade 40 chain on their website is "Maggi Catene Aqua 4". They will provide a test certificate on request. I am going to order next week unless something interesting crops up on this thread.

Paul