Anchor Chain Stowage Problem

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sailor22

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I have 140 feet of 3/8 chain in the anchor locker of my 1978 Enderlein Halberg Rassy 38, which is two levels down in my bow locker below the level which houses my gas bottles and assorted deck work paraphenalia.

It is not much anchor rode and I would like to have more, and/or a good length of cordage attached to it, but that does not seen to work.

When recovering my anchor, if I have deployed most of the chain, it stacks up below the hawse pipe and prevents the last 10 feet being fed down from the windlass. Of course by now I am no longer attached to the bottom, but nor am I free to manouvre and could well be drifting onto a lee shore, single-handed, while I sort out this mess.

Does anyone have any ideas to help me solve my problem?
 
It would be nice to fix it properly, but in the meantime it would surely help to reshuffle the chain halfway through hoisting. You're still attached to the ground at that point, and have made enough space that the crucial end part will go in smoothly.

I suspect others will have better ideas to help with the self-stowing - only two I can suggest are a traffic cone (to break up the pyramid, but probably won't fit in practice) or stainless-steel chain (slipperier than galvanised so doesn't stick together in a heap, but impractically expensive). Personally I solved the problem by sawing through the bottom of my chain locker and incorporating the space underneath, but that's no good if your current one is self-draining (mine wasn't).

Pete
 
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sailor22 said:
I have 140 feet of 3/8 chain in the anchor locker of my 1978 Enderlein Halberg Rassy 38, which is two levels down in my bow locker below the level which houses my gas bottles and assorted deck work paraphenalia.

It is not much anchor rode and I would like to have more, and/or a good length of cordage attached to it, but that does not seen to work.

When recovering my anchor, if I have deployed most of the chain, it stacks up below the hawse pipe and prevents the last 10 feet being fed down from the windlass. Of course by now I am no longer attached to the bottom, but nor am I free to manouvre and could well be drifting onto a lee shore, single-handed, while I sort out this mess.

Does anyone have any ideas to help me solve my problem?
Click to expand...


Hi Sailor22

Do you have a need for a long rode ? 43M of chain seems plenty, depending of course on your intended anchorages.

This I assume is a common problem for anyone with a hawse pipe and relatively small below chain locker.
I have similar problems and have never found a satisfactory method of overcoming it.
And yes like you I sail single-handed and it has caused me great problems in having to rush below, gain access to the chain locker, and flake the chain down such that the rest could fall into place, just when you have more important things to do on deck.
I did have some success with controlling the rate/speed the chain goes down the hawse pipe. The chain always builds up in a pile, as you know, this causes the problems I have. What I found was to allow it to go to the point well before it would jam up. Stopped the flow down the hawse and made about 5M of chain flake out on deck. With the windless stopped I then used the weight of the chain and by lifting it & dropping it down the hawse
it knocked over the piled and made room for the remaining chain to fall into place.
A bit slow tedious and not always successful so like you if anyone can advise a better method I look forward to hearing it.

I have also tried using a long length of bar and ramming it down the hawse pipe to try & knock over the pile of chain. That did not work very well either. When in a panic situation (only once) I just let the chain flake out on deck as a last resort.
Not good practise.
 
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I know that a traffic cone has been suggested, but you don't need s complete cone to help the chain sort itself out. Try making a cone out of plywood that slots together in the same way that the ubiquitous 'black plastic' motor sailing day shapes do and put that in the locker directly under the hawse pipe. The advantage of using plywood is that you can shape it to fit into the locker unlike a plastic traffic cone that takes up lots of room. Also the 'cone' of the ply still defects the chain and prevents it piling up too much whilst not taking up too much volume.

If you find it works, coat the whole plywood cone assembly with a couple of coats of epoxy.
 
Merely out of interest, when any solid is 'poured' onto a flat surface it forms a pyramid. The shape of the pyramid is dictated by the friction inherent in the solid (chain has loadsa friction)

The angle between the flat surface and the side of the pyramid is known as the 'angle of repose'.

Lovely, innit?
 
Twister_Ken said:
The angle between the flat surface and the side of the pyramid is known as the 'angle of repose'.
Click to expand...

So, just to make a simple ridge (like a roof)down the middle of the anchor well might well do the trick. What do you think, would it disturb the repose? Mmmmm thinks, ...until it fills up I suppose.
 
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Excellent. I knew there must be a solution. Just couldn't see it.
Not sure how it will work in practice in my chain locker but going to give it a try.

Thanks very much for the tip.
 
Is the bottom of your chain locker flat?

If its angled, like mine, then I solved it by laying a sheet of shiny white plastic wall cladding (of the sort found in caravans etc) on the bottom.... was slippery enough to cause the chain to slide to the bottom and completely resolved any 'piling' issues... and a lot easier!
 
prv said:
It would be nice to fix it properly, but in the meantime it would surely help to reshuffle the chain halfway through hoisting. You're still attached to the ground at that point, and have made enough space that the crucial end part will go in smoothly.

I suspect others will have better ideas to help with the self-stowing - only two I can suggest are a traffic cone (to break up the pyramid, but probably won't fit in practice) or stainless-steel chain (slipperier than galvanised so doesn't stick together in a heap, but impractically expensive). Personally I solved the problem by sawing through the bottom of my chain locker and incorporating the space underneath, but that's no good if your current one is self-draining (mine wasn't).

Pete
Click to expand...

How does this traffic cone idea work? Chain coming down into the chain locker will naturally form into a cone shape, and gradually build up by spilling out in all directions. Will the traffic cone not just deprive the locker of the cone's volume?
 
Twister_Ken said:
Merely out of interest, when any solid is 'poured' onto a flat surface it forms a pyramid. The shape of the pyramid is dictated by the friction inherent in the solid (chain has loadsa friction)

The angle between the flat surface and the side of the pyramid is known as the 'angle of repose'.

Lovely, innit?
Click to expand...


I know it's exepnsive, but as someone said above s/s chain flows into a much much flatter pyramid (angle of repose about 20 deg, compared with maybe 50deg for rough old galvanised chain) and would probably solve your problem. I have s/s chain now (was standard fit by the builder) and was quite struck by its different behaviour in the anchor locker.
 
jfm said:
I know it's exepnsive, but as someone said above s/s chain flows into a much much flatter pyramid (angle of repose about 20 deg, compared with maybe 50deg for rough old galvanised chain) and would probably solve your problem. I have s/s chain now (was standard fit by the builder) and was quite struck by its different behaviour in the anchor locker.
Click to expand...

That would be the preferable method but a bit out of my price bracket.
 
NormanS said:
How does this traffic cone idea work?
Click to expand...

It's not my idea and I've never seen it in practice, just passing it on. However, I believe the idea is to disrupt the cone-building behaviour of the chain, forming it into a wider-based doughnut shape around the plastic cone. This would absorb more length of chain without reaching the same height. Obviously it won't work in a chain locker that has only just enough total volume for the chain in any shape, which is pretty much the situation with mine. (Mine is tall and narrow though, and generally stows OK.)

Pete
 
I made a deflector plate out of an old piece of stainless bracket I had lying about for ten years, thinking it could be useful one day. Normally I think of a use for such material a few days after I finally chuck it out, but this time I was lucky..

It works a bit like that chainboy thingy, but a lot cheaper, lighter, and easier to fit. It protrudes forward from the chainlock bulkhead wall about 3 inches, sloping downwards by about 30 degrees. Sometimes the chain slithers off one side, then the other, and sometimes it slithers down to the end of the deflector plate. The result is three little pyramids of chain, rather than one big one.
 
jfm said:
I know it's exepnsive, but as someone said above s/s chain flows into a much much flatter pyramid (angle of repose about 20 deg, compared with maybe 50deg for rough old galvanised chain) and would probably solve your problem. I have s/s chain now (was standard fit by the builder) and was quite struck by its different behaviour in the anchor locker.
Click to expand...

My chain is good old fashioned galvanised, but it gets used all the time, and so gets polished up quite effectively. I never thought of it that way before, but maybe I've got the best of both worlds.

The best chain lockers are deep, and also have a long drop into them, - not an easy combination to obtain.
 
NormanS said:
The best chain lockers are deep, and also have a long drop into them, - not an easy combination to obtain.
Click to expand...

The chain lockers on Stavros are tall and vertical, and down two flights of ladder from the windlass, and still need muggins with a stick to make the chain stow properly :D

Pete
 
Lots of good stuff here. Thank you for your ideas.

I like Ric's bit of stainless plate which seems cheap and effective, therefore it appeals!

I will report on how I get on.

My problem is that the anchor locker is right up in the bows, therefore it is triangular in shape and diminishes rapidly in size as you go deeper into it to about 5 feet down from the deck (I did once and nearly had to be dragged out by my feet!)
 
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