Anchor Chain- Italian or Chinese ?

C

CJ13

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 Jan 2008
Messages
717
Visit site
I need to renew my 8mm anchor chain & i’ve been offered a choice of Italian or Chinese made at about the same price ( approx €5/ m ). I assume it’s Gr 30, but difficult to be sure as i’m in a small yard in Greece with limited English spoken.
Any views as to which is likely to have the better quality galvanising?
 
Maggi, the most well known Italian chain maker has a poor reputation for galvanising. They have also gone into administration - or that is what was published about 4-8 weeks ago. Maggi do not make a G30, only a G40 marked as A4, for Aqua.

Chinese chain is a complete lottery - but all the Chinese chain I has seen has had better galvanising than Maggi, except for one supply (of an exceptionally cheap product). If the chain is CMP Chinese chain, marked CMP with a number (marked on separate links - so CMP on some and the number on another and the marks quite far apart, not on every link) then their quality in terms of strength and galvanising is good. CMP make G30 and G40 (and imperial G43).

But do note - galvanising from the same supplier varies - there does not seem a great deal of sophisticated control.

Other Chinese suppliers, of which there are many (hundreds) tend not to mark their chain, at all. But Chinese chain bought as G30 usually is of a near G40 quality for strength and the galvanising is better than Maggi's.

Look at the drum in which the chain is held - if its CMP is will be marked as such (and I'd have thought the same for Maggi).

If the Italian chain is a G30 - its not maggi and I have never heard of it - it might be fantastic!

There is a chandler in Pireaous (spelling?) who sells Rocna and CMP chain - but I do not have the name, its some time since I was there. Email CMP/Titan/Rocna - they would tell you. CMP sell under the Titan brand, so google Titan Chain - but make sure its CMP as Titan is a common brand.

Jonathan
 
Stefanou in Piraeus may be the one. There is a whole street of chandleries and Stefanou has a good stock of anchors. Tel seems to be 21041 19383 but only read off a till receipt. The other good chandlery is at Poros (google) they sell everything. Both chandlers on Lwros can supply good chain.
 
I thought I might add:

Chain I see from China, CMP excepted, comes in 200l steel drums. On the side of the drum is stencilled a batch number, drum number, importer and supplier. The importer, who might be different from the retailer, should receive a certificate of quality for the batch. This should include the Ultimate Tensile Strength. Its worth asking for sight of the certificate - though this might be less easy to request in Greece - no reflection on Greeks but they might be more difficult to persuade that you are interested in the safety of your self and your yacht - but worth a try. The same goes for CMP and Maggi - they should be supplying certificates of quality to the distributor, who might again be different to the retailer.

The certificate of quality will make no mention of galvanising - there may be some quality control but it is not part of normal chain specification - even though galvanising thickness partially determines chain life.

UTS is not currently a critical issue - chain failure (or complaints. retirements) is almost exclusively as a result of gal failure, not it breaking. But I have found one supply of chain from China that should never have been in a chandler and was fit only to chain up a dog.

Jonathan
 
Thanks Neeves & Vyv - Just the info I wanted.
I’ve spoken to Stefanou & they have Chinese chain at €2.8 /m (sold @ €2/ kg ) a very good price. Now it’s just working out how to get it to Chalkousti!
 
TQA - I don't know how many Italian short link gal chain makers there are but I'd hate to see the whole bunch of them tarred with the same brush. I only know of Maggi (and reports of Maggi's galvanising are consistent(ly bad) but I do know there are other chain makers, making lifting chain (I know of 2) - and some, one, of these make an excellent product (world class). I'm not aware that the lifting chain makers that I know of make short link gal chain. Can you confirm that your chain was Maggi's in their Aqua range (and sold in the UK by Jimmy Green, Maggi had a recent US distributor and had been selling in the Caribbean for some years) - if its a different manufacturer then maybe its a problem not limited to Maggi.

Jonathan
 
Last edited:
KellysEye said:
I would only bought test chain it's the only way to guarantee quality.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you think 'test' chain is any better than anything else.

All chain should be supplied by a responsible manufacturer or responsible importer with a test certificate which should define UTS, extension to break, every link proof tested (this latter usually a continuous process) and Proof testing means it has been tested to 2 times WLL.. The American NACM have a voluntary code of testing that appears to have been adopted by many chain maker looking to an international market.

So far so good.

Test Chain is just as described - but so is most other chain

Now that is the good news

The bad news is that the tests covers a batch - and a batch might be 3,000m (yes 3km) - and only 7 links need be tested.

The reality is that most G30 chain today is well over strength, near G40 quality (those of us who discuss this think it may be due to an overabundance (so maybe cheap) of steel wire to a near G40 spec (but G40 chain is over strength as well).

So - Test Chain is tested - but then so is virtually every other chain - but 7 links in 3km is not very exhaustive (and not worth searching for 'Test chain' over anything else).

I suggest to anyone buying chain to ask to see sight of the test certificate - which would normally be part of the documentation supplied by the manufacturer. But you need to do your homework to ensure that when you see it you know what it means. When I buy chain, from PWB an Australian chain maker now part of the Kito Group (along with Peerless in America) and I buy lots for testing - it come automatically with the batch test certificate (and I'm only buying maybe 2m).

As Richard points out - the certificate does not cover galvanising and given that reports of chain failure, through breaking are now non-existent (and I stand to be corrected) then chain life is determined by the life of the galvanising. It is common knowledge that galvanising life is 'largely' related to galvanising thickness - and this is not part of any specification available to the consumer. Chain makers tell me they have internal specifications (but don't reveal what they are). In Australia - and I don't think other places are much different then most product, engineering components, are galvanised to a min 70 micron coating (and I think this may be the minimum for chain). But its not only about coating thickness - poor cleaning, pickling with acid, will detract from the adhesion of the gal to the underlying steel and too much coating can result in flaking or peeling. So there is a sweet point between the minimum, maybe 70 microns, and too much and it flakes off easily. Customers who have product regularly galvanised tell me that a fresh zinc bath gives better galvanising than an old bath (the bath picks up impurities) - which may account for some of the variability (but this is anecdotal).

Vyv has a simple test on his website to check for adhesion.

I find that gal thickness varies, even from one manufacturer, and I deduce that controlling thickness is not easy. By and large most chain available comfortably meets a 70 micron minimum - and is commonly around 100 microns.

My assessment of Chinese chain is that it is as good as anything that is available 'in the West' and better than some, in the west. But and its a big but - there are lots of Chinese chain makers all willing to do a deal - if you find very cheap Chinese chain - be wary - it is probably cheap for a reason. People are well aware that I have had little time for Rocna, now made by CMP - CMP chain is as good as you can buy, I have tested lots and it meets specification, their chain tends to be comfortably over strength, and the galvanising is, like everyone else a bit variable - but generally very good.

If you want to guarantee quality - buy Peerless metric G30 or G40 - its available in Europe - but at what cost, I don't know. Or buy from a chain maker who imports from China - they have the ability to test and confirm the test certificate that came with their delivery.

Do not be beguiled by shiny chain - you are looking at shiny zinc and its the alloy (and the thickness of the alloy) underneath the zinc that gives the abrasion resistance.

For my High Tensile anchor chain investigation I have been buying (or someone who wants the HT chain has been buying) chain of G80 and G100 quality, from 2m to 100m lengths. I have requested and received test certificates of everything bought - its not out of the ordinary. One importer has his own test facilities (as does Chains Ropes and Anchors in NZ) - again anyone specialising in chain will have independent testing conducted.


None of this is very satisfactory - its a lottery - most of the time you will have a decent product but occasionally something nasty will slip through - as may have happened with purchase of Italian chain. I thought about Italian chain makers - Lofrans now sell chain, G30 and 40 I believe with ambitions for G70 and I think the chain comes from China (as far as I know, they certainly do not make it). They do have a reputation to protect - so quality might be more than adequate.

But the more people who demand to see a test certificate and the bigger the clamour to have gal thickness on the certificate - the better.

And referring again to my investigation of HT chain - I have developed a simple test (you need a coating thickness meter) to measure gal thickness for the coatings I specify - its not rocket science

I'd like to do more testing of standard G30/40/70 chain on a more regular basis (and I suspect, maybe hope, Vyv would agree). But we have to buy the chain and we need to pay for it to be tested - and the, printed, media baulks at regular test programmes as I envisage. So we are left with the lottery.

Fortunately - most chain currently seems of an acceptable quality - I'd like to monitor to check that no-one takes short cuts.


On this latter - I had heard, anecdotal so totally unreliable, that an importer identifying that he had bought G30 but it arrived meeting G40 specs - sold it as G40.

I don't see Lewmar, etc doing this - buy from a responsible and reliable supplier. Buy from someone who has a reputation to protect (so ask the retailer - who is the importer/distributor (for example Plastimo).

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
TQA - I don't know how many Italian short link gal chain makers there are but I'd hate to see the whole bunch of them tarred with the same brush. I only know of Maggi (and reports of Maggi's galvanising are consistent(ly bad) but I do know there are other chain makers, making lifting chain (I know of 2) - and some, one, of these make an excellent product (world class). I'm not aware that the lifting chain makers that I know of make short link gal chain. Can you confirm that your chain was Maggi's in their Aqua range (and sold in the UK by Jimmy Green, Maggi had a recent US distributor and had been selling in the Caribbean for some years) - if its a different manufacturer then maybe its a problem not limited to Maggi.

Jonathan
Click to expand...

The chain was 10 mm x 28 mm and was bought in Grenada from Budget Marine. Despite several visits to discuss the short life I received no satisfaction from the supplier who also refused to name the manufacturer.

I know of other purchasers of this chain who also found it to have a very short life.
 
Without being categorical I'd say it was Maggi, as if there was another supplier from Italy serving the Caribbean someone, somewhere would have mentioned them. It sadly is a consistent story of Maggi's quality. It is a pity as Maggi's chain strengths were consistently good.

Interestingly that though the reports of chain failure of a G30 quality, properly sized for the yacht, have virtually (or totally disappeared) (and we have now had a few years of Chinese imports - without negative comment) there is a move toward using 'even'' higher strength chain - without any benefit in saving weight (nor money). In America windlass are commonly supplied with a G43 gypsy as the default size and Maggi sold a G40 (and not a G30). Safety factors increased - though there was never an indication that chain sizing (which was developed for G30 chain) vs yacht size spread sheets were in any way marginal or inadequate.

G43, Imperial, looks an excellent product - but this is masked as it is sold to a 3:1 safety factor, rather than a 4:1 safety factor common to metric chain. The WLL of G43 looks quite impressive, vs G40 chain - but the numbers, the 43 and the 40, reflect the min strength of the wire and G43 is not much stronger than G40 - do not be beguiled - its an arithmetic fudge - and there is no reason that I know of why G43 and G40 both used for the same application should have a different safety factor.

In case you wonder who would be beguiled - someone here in Oz swapped from G30 to G43 because he thought, and that was the sales pitch, it was that much safer and he could reduce chain size (and he bought a new gypsy). It is stronger - but if you want to down size then go for G70 and do it properly.

The Chinese, recall there are many manufacturers (maybe 100s), do sell a G40 product - but most still seems to be a G30 quality, but the actual strength is near G40.

Jonathan
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top