Anchor Chain - how much? (etc)

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Pavalijo

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We are fitting out the boat ready to cast off next year, business sale permitting! We will be moving from Scotland to East med over a few years, possibly taking 2 years to get to Gibraltar and then moving swiftly over to Greece/Turkey where we will be based. We will be on board from April-October only, leaving boat on the hard over winter. we will need to spend much more time at anchor than in marinas.

The next intended purchase is 8mm DIN766 grade 40 anchor chain, having discovered a badly corroded joining link almost half way along the existing 65m chain. Our boat (sail) is 38' long and 9 tonnes (plus cruising baggage). The windlass is a Lofrans 1000w.

My question to those of you who have done this is how much chain we should purchase for the primary anchor, a Rocna 25kg. I had in mind 80 to 90m and ensure we store only lightweight "stuff" under the forward berth (all tankage is on and aft of midships)?

Also I intend to acquire a 16kg Delta or Kobra and put around 35m chain plus anchorplait on that, and a Fortress FX23 with 10 (or 15?)m of chain plus anchorplait on that - what total lengths would you recommend for those - and any comments on the overall suite of anchors would be greatly appreciated? I am happy not to skimp on the anchor set up to achieve savings (fewer nights in marinas) later

Finally (and I am placing this query on the PBO forum also), any recommendations for the supply of good quality chain in the UK? I hear that far east chain is perhaps to be avoided.

Many thanks in advance and I apologise if some of these queries are old news, but I have searched!

Paul.
 
We carried 60 metres for the main anchor, a CQR, and that was fine. We also carried a Fortress with 100 feet of warp and 25 metres of chain. We also had a monster Fortress as a storm anchor with the same amount of chain and rope as the other Fortress. We never used the storm anchor.
 
We have been in the Med for ten years, in Greece for around six. 60 metres of chain on the bower has always been enough except when I misjudged my distance out when berthing stern to. I have heard that sometimes more may be needed in Turkey but cannot confirm that. Our Fortress kedge has about 5 metres of chain and 50 metres of Anchorplait. We now have 100 metres of polypropylene line for a shore line, replacing two x 40 metres that we had previously.

The chain question is probably better answered on PBO.
 
We have 50m of 10mm on the 20kg Manson and that has been adequate for France, N & SW Spain and Portugal. Fortress FX 16 used as kedge with around 10m chain and 30m of 3 strand. (38ft 9 ton boat)
 
We had the same set up as you are proposing Rocna, Fortress and a Delta. For the main anchor 60 metre min and 40 meter rope. The other two 30 meter chain and 40 meter rope. We sailed from LARGS to Cyprus and always prefered to anchor to save costs.

Good luck
 
Many thanks for the responses. Looks like I can reduce the length and weight - although given Vyv's comment re Turkey I will order 75m.

I managed to acquire a 100m polyprop shoreline tape on a stainless reel that will attach to the pushpit - unused and an Ebay bargain at £100!
 
Long and thin gets it in, but short and thick does the trick!

In the discussion of how much chain, how much one needs is also also a function of weight of chain per metre. If you have a limited total weight, say 100kg, then a shorter length of heavier chain attached to rope actually allows a shorter total scope (depth of water, wind strength etc all remaining the same). It's slightly counter intuitive I know. But I do recommend that you have a good length of rope as well as chain, if only to provide some stretch. Note that this is the set-up for most kedges.

For what it's worth, I too have 60m of chain and rarely need more, but when I do, I have another 50m of rope sliced to the chain (what kind of splice, and what material for the rope are subjects for discussion elsewhere;-)
 
vyv_cox said:
We have been in the Med for ten years, in Greece for around six. 60 metres of chain on the bower has always been enough except when I misjudged my distance out when berthing stern to. I have heard that sometimes more may be needed in Turkey but cannot confirm that. Our Fortress kedge has about 5 metres of chain and 50 metres of Anchorplait. We now have 100 metres of polypropylene line for a shore line, replacing two x 40 metres that we had previously.
Ù
The chain question is probably better answered on PBO.
Click to expand...

Pretty much what we have. Latest birthday present, a Leica laser measure, just to get the dist. Off correct!
 
Lofrans 1000W with 60 meters of 10mm chain on a 36ft boat (East Med). I wouldn't like less. In fact I wouldn't mind having another 10-20 meters of chain either.
 
jdc said:
In the discussion of how much chain, how much one needs is also also a function of weight of chain per metre. If you have a limited total weight, say 100kg, then a shorter length of heavier chain attached to rope actually allows a shorter total scope (depth of water, wind strength etc all remaining the same). It's slightly counter intuitive I know.
Click to expand...

If you have followed the many discussions on this subject on nearly every forum, you will have noticed that this old belief is nowadays discredited, by both mathematics and by observation. Once the wind gets over about force six, all the chain will lift off the bottom, except presumably if it is silly heavy. It is now known that smaller section, stronger chain is a better choice. When Paul Chandler was refitting Lorne Rival he selected 100 metres of 8 mm Grade 70 chain. This represents a saving of 100kg over the conventional 10 mm Grade 30, with almost a doubling of strength.
 
vyv_cox said:
It is now known that smaller section, stronger chain is a better choice...
Click to expand...

I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to differ, amicably I hope, on this one: I don't want to hijack the OP's thread, and I fear we'll neither of us ever convince the other!

I hope we can agree that 60m is about right in most instances, but sometimes you'll want a bit more. You can get this either by:

1. more chain. But it'll be heavy of course, so go down a size and up a strength grade to compensate, or
2. extend the chain with rope.

Both approaches have their adherents, and so both doubtless work well enough.
 
We have a 20kg Rocna on 70m of 8mm chain as a bower, linked to a 1000w Lofrans Cayman. Kedge is a Guardian G23 with 5 m of 8 mm chain and 50m of nylon rope. We've also got a 16kg Danforthish as a final reserve.

We've sat out winds of over 60 knots on the bower in good holding. Occasionally had both bower and kedge out at the same time but we've just about decided that the trouble of unwinding the rope from the chain after the blow isn't worth the marginal peace of mind it brings......

Should have said that's on a nominal 8 tonne boat.
 
We had 50m of chain and 50 m of rope, only needed to use the rope a handful of times, but if and when we buy another boat will go for 70m of chain and do without the rope. We had the Kobra 2 anchor, never let us down and would be a good choice
 
32 foot boat, I carry 60 metres of good quality 8mm chain with 50 metres of 22mm anchor plait spliced on the end. The only time I've found it necessary to use all the chain and lay to the rope was in the Cyclades once when the anchorage got invaded by a Katabatic wind which flattened sheds, chicken coops and sent various things airborne on it's way down the hillside. I saw it coming, flapped a bit and let the chain run. Glad I did though! :D :D
 
Pavalijo said:
I hear that far east chain is perhaps to be avoided.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised Vyv didn't pick up on that. If I remember correctly, from tests he's published, much Chinese chain seems to be superior to French and Italian stuff. And ask yourself this: if you were a betting man, where would you put your money on the last state-of-the-art chain plant being built: the EU or cash-rich China?
 
macd said:
I'm surprised Vyv didn't pick up on that. If I remember correctly, from tests he's published, much Chinese chain seems to be superior to French and Italian stuff. And ask yourself this: if you were a betting man, where would you put your money on the last state-of-the-art chain plant being built: the EU or cash-rich China?
Click to expand...

I answered that one on the PBO forum, where it has sunk without trace. Chinese chain is currently the best in the world, made at Jinjiang on German machinery built in the past few years and apparently operated by German technicians.
 
vyv_cox said:
If you have followed the many discussions on this subject on nearly every forum, you will have noticed that this old belief is nowadays discredited, by both mathematics and by observation. Once the wind gets over about force six, all the chain will lift off the bottom, except presumably if it is silly heavy. It is now known that smaller section, stronger chain is a better choice. When Paul Chandler was refitting Lorne Rival he selected 100 metres of 8 mm Grade 70 chain. This represents a saving of 100kg over the conventional 10 mm Grade 30, with almost a doubling of strength.
Click to expand...

+1

All chain, smallest section of highest strength to provide the required safe working load, is the way to go in my opinion. Has always worked for me.
 
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