anchor/chain connection

[jsl]

Suggestions sought: I'd like to find a connector which will pass over my chain roller: the present arrangement of two bow-shackles back-to-back is too big. Also, it tends to capsize under certain conditions, imposing what looks like an unfair load on itself.
I hanker after one of those neat torpedo-shaped chain-to-anchor connectors which work like a double-ended shackle. However, an experienced flotilla-skipper reports that these are unreliable: they tend to shear at the jaws. Also, I think even the larger size might not have a deep enough jaw to fit my 35lb CQR. Is there a clever alternative?


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Robin]

We use a S/S torpedo type like you have seen, with a built in swivel, no problems. We have used this with a 35lb Delta and a 45lb CQR (genuine CQR) and with 10mm chain. We bought ours in France where they are about half the UK prices.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[hylas]

On "HYLAS", the chain is connected to the anchor by the means of a "toggle".. the same that you use for your rigging..
For the 10 mm chain, use a 12 mm Toggle (diameter of both axes.) it works perfectly, is cheap and the mecanical resistance is bigger that the chain one..

Fair winds and peaceful anchorages..

Alain

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[hylas]

Robin..

What is the mechanical resistance of your cheap french swivel??
are you sure (100%) that the resistance will be at least the same that the one of your chain???

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[VicS]

Yes check that one of these swivel connectors will fit before you buy. The jaws of the one I bought were not wide enough to fit on the anchor.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Robin]

Alain

I thought I was sure but you have raised doubt in my mind! The model I bought in France was made in Italy and was for 10/12mm chain. It was the same make that is being sold here in the UK, but as is often the case here the price was almost double. Unfortunately I did not keep the pack with the specification and the French catalogues I have at home do not give the breaking load or working load. In these days of EU compliance etc one should surely expect that it should be suitable for the stated purpose, ie 10/12mm chain, but I may be naive (or is that cynical).

If you have any information on the break figures for these swivel connectors please let us know as this could be very important.

In practice, we always use a rubber mooring snubber on a length of nylon line to take the snatch loads out of anchoring, using an all chain system so that the load put on the anchor itself is lessened. We have twice survived a F6 Vent Solaire blowing straight onshore with rough seas off S. Britanny with this system although the S/S hook we used to attach the snubber straightened out (now replaced with a proper cast stainless anchor hook). We have also sat out F8 winds but sheltered from the seas. I suspect we did not get close to any breaking loads in practice.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[vyv_cox]

I can make a couple of comments.

The torpedo-type connectors are OK (probably) in tension but if the load is applied laterally, e.g. when the tide turns, there is no provision for the connector to swivel, with the result that the load is then applied in bending across the connecting pin. I could imagine that this could result in a fracture of the pin, or perhaps less likely, fracture or bending of the jaws.

I think I am correct in stating that no figures are published for the vast majority of chain-chain and chain-anchor connectors. This subject has attracted a good deal of correspondence on these forums in the past few months. I have been communicating with YM editorial team about preparing an article on this subject but no doubt Paul Gelder's recent elevation in the ranks has delayed progress. Hopefully something will emerge before too long.

One answer may be the one we have adopted. We purchased a couple of shackles in which the pin is tightened with an allen key and does not protrude beyond the "D". I think these were made by Wichard. Evidently these cannot be moused but in my opinion the value of such action is vastly over-rated, so it is not a concern to me. I really cannot see that a shackle tightened between an allen key and a vice or mole wrench is ever going to loosen itself. Incidentally, the torpedo type also relies on the tightness of allen keys so there is no particular difference.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Robin]

Vyv

For us the advantage of the torpedo swivel was that it allows us to use the windlass to pull the anchor all the way into the bow roller. Shackles even without protruding heads would tend to snag and without a swivel the anchor always came into the roller the wrong way up.

As far as the force applied to the swivel on turning on the tide is concerned, I suspect that might be minimal, but a significant wind shift in survival winds might produce some heavy loads. I think a side load on our swivel would be taken on the jaws rather than the pin due to the depth of the jaws, I'll take a closer look next time I go to the boat. With a CQR (pivoted shank) maybe the shank would pivot and help reduce a side load, with our Delta (rigid shank) perhaps not, it depends how much force is required to re-set the anchor which I guess depends also on the type of bottom.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[vyv_cox]

It's funny you say that. My main objection to the torpedo swivel, used for a while but now rejected, was that the swivel was a damned nuisance. The anchor always arrived at the jaws upside down but couldn't be righted by rolling the chain.

I also use a Delta. I think you may be right about the CQR, it also has a more rounded connection. I have seen a number of photos of CQRs or copies with bent shanks and if the forces can accomplish that they can certainly bend a swivel. Delta shanks are hardened and tempered, making them stronger but maybe transferring more bending load to the swivel?

Vyv

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[gunnarsilins]

Using a toggle!?

Isn´t there a risk that the cotterpins in a toggle could catch something on the bottom and accidentaly beeing withdrawn?

Maybe this risk is very small, but wouldn´t it be preferable with a connection which is held together with something that is screwed in and even moused if possible?

By the way, are there any pros, or cons having this connection svivelling, or not?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Robin]

Vyv

Now you mention it, I've seen bent CQR shanks too. That said we anchor a lot of the time and have done for many years and have not bent or broken anything, maybe its the rubber snubber that takes the sting out of the snatch loads? We did saw through a nylon anchor rope many years ago, wind against tide when the rope got over the back edge of the keel, after that I would never use rope again.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[hylas]

Robin,

From the distance, I can't tell you if your swivel is a good one or not?? But if it is an Italian model with a counter-screw in the middle of the pin.. they are very "good" chance that it is a "bad" model.. Meine broke with the two anchors "tandem set" and I was very lucky to take them both aboard.. (and I know two other cases here in the Canaries Islands..)

Don't buy any of these swivels without a written certification of the breaking load limit from the manufacturer, not only for an "online" pull but also for a sideway one..
Always use one size bigger (I.E. !2 mm for a 10 mm chain)

The shackel made by Wichard are very strong and the Allen screw is very convenient to pass through the bow roller.. but I believe that the toggle I use is more simple..

" The anchor always arrived at the jaws upside down but couldn't be righted by rolling the chain."
this is not a hasard but a physical law.. (valid for plow anchors) as your are motoring forward for retrieving your anchor, due to its shape the anchor will always face forward.. if after raising the anchor your go backward, the anchor will stay on the right position to be retrieved on the bow roller..

Isn´t there a risk that the cotterpins in a toggle could catch something on the bottom and accidentaly beeing withdrawn?
No I don't believe that.. Try to remove the cotterpin intentionnally.. it's rather dificult..

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Robin]

Alain

Thanks very much for that information, it looks like we will need to find something better.

<hr width=100% size=1>