An Apprenticeship in the Merchant Navy today

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mocruising

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I am not a regular here but do spend time on the liveaboard Forum.

I was at sea years ago with Denholm Ship Management, enjoyed it and got my Masters. I am now involved in the offshore industry piloting/moving drilling rigs and the like.

My son started his career a couple of years ago as an engineering cadet/apprentice. He will start his final college phase in April. The Company is Anglo Eastern.

He is on a ship at the moment (One of the old Castle ships), with two other British lads from the same company all three are engineering apprentices. The ship has Ukranian officers and Phillapino crew. I am advised they (The three lads) are signed on as crew, and that they live and eat with the crew and have very little to do with the Ukranian officers. They get very little direction or formalised training. This does not seem right somehow and is so different from the apprenticeship I started 35 years ago.

Any comments from people still at sea.
 
mocruising said:
I am not a regular here but do spend time on the liveaboard Forum.

I was at sea years ago with Denholm Ship Management, enjoyed it and got my Masters. I am now involved in the offshore industry piloting/moving drilling rigs and the like.

My son started his career a couple of years ago as an engineering cadet/apprentice. He will start his final college phase in April. The Company is Anglo Eastern.

He is on a ship at the moment (One of the old Castle ships), with two other British lads from the same company all three are engineering apprentices. The ship has Ukranian officers and Phillapino crew. I am advised they (The three lads) are signed on as crew, and that they live and eat with the crew and have very little to do with the Ukranian officers. They get very little direction or formalised training. This does not seem right somehow and is so different from the apprenticeship I started 35 years ago.

Any comments from people still at sea.
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I am no longer at sea however in my time the shipping companies sponsored the
engineering cadets so it was in their interest to ensure they were trained ASAP so that the shipping company got payback by having self trained certificated officers.

Are these lads sponsored? Is the ship they are on run and managed by the sponsor?
 
I can't believe that these lads are being treated like that. They are suppose to be training to be engineering officers, those conditions are hardly going to achieve that. At the least, they will have difficulty when they go for their orals (assuming we still do them these days). I think that the whole of this situation needs investigating before these lads find they have wasted their time.
 
interesting

mocruising said:
I am not a regular here but do spend time on the liveaboard Forum.

I was at sea years ago with Denholm Ship Management, enjoyed it and got my Masters. I am now involved in the offshore industry piloting/moving drilling rigs and the like.

My son started his career a couple of years ago as an engineering cadet/apprentice. He will start his final college phase in April. The Company is Anglo Eastern.

He is on a ship at the moment (One of the old Castle ships), with two other British lads from the same company all three are engineering apprentices. The ship has Ukranian officers and Phillapino crew. I am advised they (The three lads) are signed on as crew, and that they live and eat with the crew and have very little to do with the Ukranian officers. They get very little direction or formalised training. This does not seem right somehow and is so different from the apprenticeship I started 35 years ago.

Any comments from people still at sea.
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Hi Mocrusing,

Please could you send your lad to our website, I think a number of us would like to hear about his experiences, and maybe one or two could offer some help and advice?

cheers,

Arch'
 
Certainly with Clyde Marine Training(my training company) there is a procedure to follow if/when this happens; you speak to your designated onboard training officer(as a engine cadet this will be the Chief or 1st Engineer unless AngloE have a supernumerary training officer onboard(Maersk sometimes do, don't know about AngloE)). If this gets him no joy, he must contact his Training/Liaison Officer at AngloE and tell him(don't ask) that he needs off this ship and onto another; this is unacceptable and he shouldn't worry about being thought of as a troublemaker(particularly as there are 3 cadets with the same story), it needs sorted ASAP. You're right, this is no good for the orals and will make it difficult to complete workbook/portfolio tasks. 3 months or whatever spent chipping, scraping and painting or wiping and cleaning the ER is 3 months wasted.Cadets only do 12 months seatime these days unlike your day when it was double that; while drudge can be character building there isn't really time for much of it if adequate learning is to happen.

Don't get me wrong, time spent with the motormen can be useful for learning about routine jobs like cleaning the scavenge chest and other 'dirty' tasks, but they should be spending at least 50% of their time with the 3rd or 4th engineer learning daily routine and assisting on planned and unplanned maintenance, and a little time with the 2nd and 1st doing similar.
 
Bit of thread drift

mocruising said:
I was at sea years ago with Denholm Ship Management, enjoyed it and got my Masters. .
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I worked for them for a while (engineering) when they had the contract to manage 3 ships owned by the Gomba Shipping Company. These ships had been built in Bombay to a very low standard. If you unbolted a flange on a section of piping it sprang apart. Also all the brass screws in the electrical junction boxes were hand made with the slots cut with a hacksaw

We took the first of these ships over from the previous management company in Dunkerque. As soon as the Denholm crew stepped on board the previous crowd walked off without any handover at all and we sailed that evening for Barbados, not knowing where anything was. The Chief Engineer being an alcoholic didn't help much and the Old Man was doing his first trip as master. One time the ship got seized in Alexandria for non-payment of debts. Despite this it was a happy ship but hard work keeping it going!
 
parsifal said:
These ships had been built in Bombay to a very low standard. If you unbolted a flange on a section of piping it sprang apart.
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The chinese build like this as well; it makes repairs to pipe systems or anything involving splitting joints a major pain in the fundament.
 
My nephew went through via Glasgow Nautical College, as an Engineer. Almost the only English speaking person on the ship. No training, just had to get on with it. Walked out after a year and half and told the Company to FO. Got a job and repaid some deposit he made for not taking his exam. He has a degree in Engineering anyway and is now working in a bank.

The UK now has a S h i t maritime industry and is the pits when it comes to training. We should just give up pretending that we are serious about this.
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
My nephew went through via Glasgow Nautical College, as an Engineer. Almost the only English speaking person on the ship. No training, just had to get on with it. Walked out after a year and half and told the Company to FO. Got a job and repaid some deposit he made for not taking his exam. He has a degree in Engineering anyway and is now working in a bank.

The UK now has a S h i t maritime industry and is the pits when it comes to training. We should just give up pretending that we are serious about this.
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What you say is unfortuately true...However there is in Glasgow a company called Northern Marine with direct links to Stena which operates fast ferries as well as offshore rigs and is a good route into this industry.

The oil industry is facing a shortage of good young marine and drilling people.
Too many there like me and Blowing old Boots who are well past our first flush of youth :D:D:D:D
 
Bilgediver said:
What you say is unfortuately true...However there is in Glasgow a company called Northern Marine with direct links to Stena which operates fast ferries as well as offshore rigs and is a good route into this industry.

The oil industry is facing a shortage of good young marine and drilling people.
Too many there like me and Blowing old Boots who are well past our first flush of youth :D:D:D:D
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Hi, I was at sea for 25 years as a Senior Radio Officer then ETO with P & O General Cargo Division (12 years) and Northern Marine Ship Management in Glasgow. I strongly suggest getting you son off this vessel A.S.A.P. Call Northern Marine in Glasgow or Clyde Marine (also in Glasgow) and try and have him placed with either. He is obviously just being used as cheap labour and should be treated as an officer not crew.

Kind regards,

supersparks
 
supersparks said:
Hi, I was at sea for 25 years as a Senior Radio Officer then ETO with P & O General Cargo Division (12 years) and Northern Marine Ship Management in Glasgow. I strongly suggest getting you son off this vessel A.S.A.P. Call Northern Marine in Glasgow or Clyde Marine (also in Glasgow) and try and have him placed with either. He is obviously just being used as cheap labour and should be treated as an officer not crew.

Kind regards,

supersparks
Click to expand...

+1

Not acceptable. Get him out.
 
Hi, Im new to this sight but this topic is one that I have first hand experience of.

I have recently passed my orals in the last month and sailed previously as a cadet with Zodiac Maritime Agencies, this was through a sponsorship programme with Clyde Marine.

I sailed as a deck cadet on four zodiac vessels and not once did I sail with any British Officers. The majority where Bulgarian, Russian, Ukrainian, Indian, Romanian, Indian and Chinese with Phillipinos on deck. The majority of the crews where very friendly people but language barriers constantly arose! Upon two occassions I was the only person onboard with English as a first language! Not only did this affect my morale but when it came to completing my portfolio and completing my onboard training tasks things became incredibly difficult. I had to teach myself how to use the sextant using my college notes as not one Officer onboard could "remember" how to use one.

The company as a whole has no training programme properly set up for training its some 150 odd British cadets which it only takes on for tax reasons and to flag their vessels in the UK. They have no intention of employing their British cadets.

We where told that if we were felt we were recieving below standard training that we should inform Clyde Marine, this was done on a number of occassions and everytime we got the same response "theres nothing we can do about it, thats just the way it is guys" !!

Something needs to be done to ensure proper training is provided onboard before companies are allowed to place cadets onboard their vessels. My flatmate served his cadetship with Chevron and has recieved excellent training onboard and like all of the companies successful cadets has been given a job.

Things have to change!
 
Thanks for that post

i am also into the profession as a nautical sci. cadet, and intend to go on board as a midshipman by next year. from ur xperience what do think about my decision.As in my country, we lack maritime institutions with very good practical aspects so i think with good academic background of nautical cadetship and a nice placement in a good shipping vessel for apprientiship i would get to the best of my career. please i would be xpecting your humble reply
kings
 
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