American boats

[moondancer]

I have just started looking at secondhand Sportscruisers, following years of nagging from the family that my sailing boat takes days to get anywhere.

After looking at the adverts American boats like the Bayliner 24' seem good value.

I have now looked at a few early '80s types at brokerages, and they all seem to be falling apart in the cockpit, especially the upholstery and instrumentation.

The question is - have I just picked bad examples, or are they badly built compared to English boats??

 

[Col]

Bayliners are built to a price, quality of vinyls etc are not as good, also cabin upholstery uses cheap foam and synthetic fabrics which don't breath - gets very sweaty.

 

[oldgit]

Re: Not just American boats

I am sure that lots of people have fun with bayliners and for the absolute beginner a cheap way of getting on to the water.My own feeling is that for someone of your experience there are many boats which would prove to be a better choice.I do not have any experience of the construction of sailing boats but I suspect you will find that most modern powercraft look to be the chipboard/ triumph of fashion over good construction and ease of use.ie curvey/sloping cabin roof +almost impossible access to foredecks etc.On an the fairline I looked at it was difficult to walk along the deck to go forward because the deck was so narrow the wire along the stantions was cutting into your legs and I am a v.skinny bloke.

 

[Col]

While were about it,also check windscreens. They have a habit of breaking/falling out.

 

[hlb]

You've got away very lucky so far, mentioning bin liners on here. I was fool enough to have an American Imperial once.
Price right and looked lovely in the show room.
But leaks all round the windows and wonder when there falling out.
Carpet glued down over the engine. 20 gallon fuel tank, so just enough to get out but none for comming home!

Haydn

 

[kimhollamby]

Badly built? It helps to try and quantify that a bit.

As a rule there's nothing wrong with the fundamentals such as hull construction otherwise American lawyers would probably have wiped out half of the American marine industry by now. And in case you hear it from elsewhere, that is not because US boats are "just designed for lakes either". For starters, the size of their lakes are often like our seas.

The flip side is that a number of American makes were built down to a tight price in the 1980s. It's an interesting point and one I'd never considered before this morning but I wouldn't mind betting that, even after you knock out inflation/cost of raw material issues, US boats are probably more expensive per foot length now, just like their European counterparts, than they were in the 1980s, even though the American boats probably came with more kit as standard back then. Some of that cost increase will have been going into the use of better furnishings, fabrics and fittings which, as a rule, are much improved.

Cosmetics are bound to be suffering now, especially on boats that have not been well looked after. Another sweeping generalisation but I suspect craft of this type suffer from a higher proportion of neglectful owners for one reason or another.

What this all tells you is that, as with any secondhand purchase, you have to keep your eyes open. At the kind of value you are looking at I'd be very focused on the machinery (a re-engine or new outdrive would represent a serious proportion of the original spend) and on the state of the hull (you can break any boat if you try hard enough, so look for signs of abuse especially on small boats with big engines).

Also, just in case you are in the top end of the trailing market, be very careful about any American trailers of 1980s vintage. Some were converted to UK road standard (50mm hitch instead of 2in for example, brakes and width of trailer being two others) but a few illegal ones may still be out there.

After that, whether you can live with the state of the boat or are prepared to put some after purchase effort in to replace upholstery, corroded electrics and the like, will be down to whether you want that challenge and have secured the right price in the first place. That will apply to a lesser or greater extent to all sportscruisers of 15-20 years vintage.

 

[DavidJ]

Rightly or wrongly you will have detected a bias against Bayliners which means you will buy one cheap but also sell even cheaper. With interest rates low the overall cost of ownership will maybe favour buying something more solid. I've just sold a trailerable Sealine 240 age 1993 for 90% of the £ price that I bought it for 5 years ago and it still looks great.
David

 

[hlb]

Re: To Summarise

Kim thinks there crap too, but he just likes to use lots of words to say the same thing, also they may wish to advertise, so darnt give to much stick or job goes belly up.
Some people say they've got better and maybe they have.
But like you. The older ones always look a sorry site in the marinas,
maybe its just the colour, or the spare putty round the windows that does it, or the bits falling off. May be there ok.
Well they float anyway and thats good in my book.
And there cheap, which has to be good.
So taking the all round view and looking on the positive side.
It's a boat and better than no boat.
But you've had a yacht so need something a bit more substantial.
Just to not loose to many browny points from Kim.
He's right about the hulls being ok'ish. But like you say, the rest of the gear seems to have an adversion to sticking to it.

Haydn

 

[Geoffs]

I looked a few American boats, and I felt that they wore reasonably well. I couldn't fault Sea Ray quality, for example. But my main objection with such craft is that they like to stick wapping great V8 petrols in. When their home market had gas at $1 a gallon, fair enough I suppose. I'm not anti petrol, my own is petrol, but I just don't like paying for it

Mind you, today I saw a nice 25ft diesel boat, 4.2l Mercruiser, shaft drive, 5yr old £22K. Now where is that piggy bank.

 

[Guest]

OK now for some first hand experience, my first cruiser was a 26ft bayliner (1990) that I trailed all over the country.

The general standard of fit was not as good as equivalent UK boats of the time (eg Fairline Fury) but the cost to buy was about half. The boat did everything that I asked and cost very little in the time I owned it.

If you can, go for a post 1990 boat, since these have Mercruiser rather than OMC engine/outdrives and these seem to hold together better.

I bought the boat in January and sold it in 18 months later for a 20% profit.

IMHO American boats give a good way into boating at the smaller end of the sportscruiser scale (lets face it UK boat builders have all but given up on this section of the market) and if purchased at the right price give excellent value for money.

Other boats to look at include Rinkers,Maxums and Sea Rays.

 

[byron]

You won't buy a 25' Deisel boat Geoff, you like roaring around the ocean at 40 knots too much.

ô¿ô
www.education-jobs.co.uk
www.alexander-advertising.co.uk

 

[Geoffs]

Up early again eh, Byron? Yes you are probably reght! Nice day down in Dorset, yesterday, bet it was nice on the river as well.

 

[oldgit]

When I first decided to go for a bigger boat than my normal speed boat type thing. Several b--liners appeared on my list.One machine stood out due to the long stress cracks running fore and aft which had been sprayed over in a not very professional way.The brokers blurb said that this craft was unusual in that "it did not suffer from hull stress cracks".Any craft which is not in its original gel coat I think needs much closer inspection than normal.I would also like to comment on the number of berths claimed two of the so called berths were little more than a narrow shelf under the deck.

 

[moondancer]

Thanks folks - I have learned more real insights in this forum than in several months reading magazines. I guess you wonder why magazines don't include this sort of stuff as many readers would be newcomers to motor boating.

In fact, if you go to the boatshows, read the magazines - top of your list would be a shiny petrol engined sportscruiser. I only realised that most marinas don't stock petrol from reading these threads.

Coming from a sailing boat, I have never looked for it before.

 

[ari]

If you are buying pre early '90s American boats make sure you check for osmossis, or indeed high moisture content in the hull which is the precursor to osmossis.

Ari

 

[hlb]

Well done. Theres the answer.

Trouble is, power boats cost much more than yachts and the market dosn't start much below 20 grand. Anything below that sort of level Tends to be. Small, Petrol, Old, Tatty.
I'm looking at it from the point of view, that you want something for a family of four, for weekends at least and be capable of coast hopping at least.

Haydn

 

[BarryD]

Re: American boats - What Rot!

Come on people - American boats are OK, well mine is (Rinker 250 Fiesta Vee). She doesn't leak from any of the windows,the 5.7 Mercruiser starts 2nd / 3rd spin from cold and then once warmed through idles at 850 on the button. OK it slammed and banged in in deeper swells but is OK for coastal stuff.

It's got the space for four people (better with 3) for a long weekend, the under cockpit cabin is cosy, the forward berths 8 feet long. With a fan heater on she was lovely and warm this weekend.

Prejudice againt petrol boats (is it because they accelerate and are more responsive to the throttle?) and American (rubbish) is pretty much the norm but they float, go forwards, backwards (and sideways - whoops). Are great fun and hold their value. AND they can be bought for the low teens.

Sub £20K you have to consider the overall condition of what you are buying. It is not going to be like a 6 year old Targa etc.. but then it's about 40 / 50K less. Get one, enjoy it, and sell it next year - you won't lose much money but you will have fun.

 

[oldgit]

Re: What Rot! oops

You can steal his wife.you can step on his blue suade shoes.throw doubt on his sexual abilities,call his whisky vile.but never ever rubbish a mans boat.

 

[BarryH]

Re: American boats - What Rot!

Biased maybe, but look at the overall cost, ok fuels dearer,but less face it you will have to use it an aful lot to justify the dearer diesel alternative, and seviceing will be a lot cheaper as well as most of the engines are marinised yank car engines, overall cost i think must cone into it (INMHO). I've had a nice english diesel boat for one season, then sold it because it just was'nt as much fun as the petrol boat that i sold, sold the diesel and went back to petrol (thats gonna cause a few wry comments). As with all second hand purchases a careful inspection, and a sevey don't go amiss. But you will have a wider spectrum of boats to look at your price level

 

[hlb]

Re: American boats - What Rot!

Yes all thats true. But the guy said he'd looked a 3 Bayliners and they were all falling to pieces and were Amarican boats not as well built as British. So the answer is no. Most American boats are not as well built. That dosent mean that you cant have fun with them or that there not good value for money.

Haydn