Am I mad...

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yachtorion

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Good secure caravan storage spaces are £30 a month round here. Given a couple of these spaces and an old banger of a long wheelbase van for one of them, I don't see any reason why I couldn't effectively use my Horizon 26 as a big trailer sailor... rather than pay marina fees all year round...

The mast is in a tabernacle and it's on a good trailer.

Am I mad?
 
Have you looked at the weight of the boat+trailer? Would it be legal? I used to have a horizon 26 and it was commonly known as the caravan by most of my friends with faster boats... Trev
 
I trail sailed an 18' First and it was good to go to different places and save on mooring fees, but.

It didn't take much to persuade myself that I could afford a mooring on Windermere for £600 pa so I could use the boat more and still be able to drag it off for a "big cruise" each year somewhere like the Clyde or the Broads.

To be honest the Horizon 26 is more of a trailable boat than a trail sailer. Good to save on moorings by bringing it home for the winter but twice a year trailing is enough.

Go for it if you are just going to sail for one or two 2 week holidays per year but forget a quick weekend off when it looks like a good forecast.

I still have a trail sailer on Windermere but not a suitable tow vehicle and regret not getting down to Mylor while I had chance, but c'est la vie as we say in Mirfield.

Take no notice of Seajet when he turns up with his anti trailsail diatribe, he is talking about dinghy sailing.
 
If cost is the driving factor it doesn't make economic sense. A serviced mooring in the Conwy river or the Menai strait (to name but two drivable locations from Manc) would be cheaper and that's discounting any benefits derived from ease of use.
 
The big problem with trailer sailing is that its just not worth it unless you are going for several days. Going out for an afternoon sail is simply not possible. It will take you at least an hour and usually a good deal longer to rig and launch each time you go out. It will take even longer to de rig and lash it all down to be safe for the return home at the end of the trip.

Its also quite hard work,so unless you are pretty fit you will be knackered by the time you get afloat.

But trailing does mean you can get to places in a week or a fortnight that you could never get to under sail. I tried it for a couple of seasons, and got to places as far apart as Falmouth and Ipswich, but I missed the day sailing and the second year took a swinging mooring. After that I only trailed to get away for a week or more,which meant just once or twice a year.

You need to be careful about the legality of towing anything that big. Plod just loves overloaded trailers, its so easy fro them to up their road crime rates! A 3.5ton van can usually only tow around a ton more,depending on make and model. Limits are on the vehicle plate, and if plod decide you are over weight (the van and trailer-not you personally!) they can make life very difficult indeed. They can and often will issue a 'stop' notice making it illegal for you to continue your journey until the overloading is resolved either by providing a big enough tow vehicle,or having the whole outfit craned on to a flatbed- roadside if necessary!

Trailer law is vastly complex nowadays. Plod will never tell you whether your outfit is legal, although they are quick enough off the mark if its not! Modern trailers can rarely be 'dunked' so you would almost certainly need one with a launching trolley - which takes even longer to load and unload, and adds to the all up weight! The trailer alone will weigh in at around 1/4 ton or more. You very rarely see boats of any size being towed around nowadays: there are very good reasons for that! I'm talking as someone who regularly towed 1.5 tons of unbraked trailer behind a1600cc Xflow Cortina quite happily over the Welsh mountains quite regularly: an outfit which nowadays would be totally illegal, and would attract every flashing blue light on the road! (They never bothered too much in those days and I never was stopped even for checking)
 
oldharry said:
The big problem with trailer sailing is that its just not worth it unless you are going for several days. Going out for an afternoon sail is simply not possible. It will take you at least an hour and usually a good deal longer to rig and launch each time you go out. It will take even longer to de rig and lash it all down to be safe for the return home at the end of the trip.

Its also quite hard work,so unless you are pretty fit you will be knackered by the time you get afloat.

But trailing does mean you can get to places in a week or a fortnight that you could never get to under sail. I tried it for a couple of seasons, and got to places as far apart as Falmouth and Ipswich, but I missed the day sailing and the second year took a swinging mooring. After that I only trailed to get away for a week or more,which meant just once or twice a year.

You need to be careful about the legality of towing anything that big. Plod just loves overloaded trailers, its so easy fro them to up their road crime rates! A 3.5ton van can usually only tow around a ton more,depending on make and model. Limits are on the vehicle plate, and if plod decide you are over weight (the van and trailer-not you personally!) they can make life very difficult indeed. They can and often will issue a 'stop' notice making it illegal for you to continue your journey until the overloading is resolved either by providing a big enough tow vehicle,or having the whole outfit craned on to a flatbed- roadside if necessary!

Trailer law is vastly complex nowadays. Plod will never tell you whether your outfit is legal, although they are quick enough off the mark if its not! Modern trailers can rarely be 'dunked' so you would almost certainly need one with a launching trolley - which takes even longer to load and unload, and adds to the all up weight! The trailer alone will weigh in at around 1/4 ton or more. You very rarely see boats of any size being towed around nowadays: there are very good reasons for that! I'm talking as someone who regularly towed 1.5 tons of unbraked trailer behind a1600cc Xflow Cortina quite happily over the Welsh mountains quite regularly: an outfit which nowadays would be totally illegal, and would attract every flashing blue light on the road! (They never bothered too much in those days and I never was stopped even for checking)
Click to expand...

I would disagree on the rigging and launching time you quote.Indeed I found from when I first got my 21ft TS that the rigging and launching then retrieving was OK for a afternoon sail. With practice you can get very quick and organised. I have a few tricks like high field lever on the forestay of fractional rig so it is tensioned up in a second. A 2 stage mast support at the transom and poles and tackle easily set up for the forestay.
However from initially 35 years ago getting my TS we did a few long trips 100s of miles but yes it does take some enthusiasm and energy. More recently I moved across the country and have a swing mooring so with just a few short trips early on I have declined to just bringing the boat home for winter. Something about old age. However with SWMBO help I can take just 1hr from home back to home to go to the boat row out rig and sail to the ramp. Haul out and unrig and tow the boat home. I take maybe 2 hrs for the relaunch and put back on the mooring and get home again.
I always dunk my trailer. So many trailer boats (Mobos) here and you never see a launching trolley. Just takes diligence to maintain the trailer and bearings.

The trailer sailing that one might dream of will only happen if you really want to and will vary from person to person. You will only know it if you try. I heard a talk by a local (middle aged doctor) who towed his boat about 3000k to Wyndham on the north coast of West Oz. He then sailed his 28ft TS (RL 28 not as big as you might imagine being 2.5m beam) about 500Nm through the coast of the Kimberleys to Broome over about 6 weeks. A real adventure. But I guess I am hust too lazy (old). This area is like the top LH quarter of Oz. Having huge tides lots of crocodiles and probably less than 1000 people for an area the size of UK. Lots of islands and certainly no marinas.
So to the OP you will never know if it works for you unless you try it. Time will tell. good luck olewill
 
aquaplane said:
I trail sailed an 18' First and it was good to go to different places and save on mooring fees, but.

It didn't take much to persuade myself that I could afford a mooring on Windermere for £600 pa so I could use the boat more and still be able to drag it off for a "big cruise" each year somewhere like the Clyde or the Broads.

To be honest the Horizon 26 is more of a trailable boat than a trail sailer. Good to save on moorings by bringing it home for the winter but twice a year trailing is enough.

Go for it if you are just going to sail for one or two 2 week holidays per year but forget a quick weekend off when it looks like a good forecast.

I still have a trail sailer on Windermere but not a suitable tow vehicle and regret not getting down to Mylor while I had chance, but c'est la vie as we say in Mirfield.

Take no notice of Seajet when he turns up with his anti trailsail diatribe, he is talking about dinghy sailing.
Click to expand...

Otherwise known as talking from experience, ( cruisers in this case ) but at least I don't criticise people behind their backs...:rolleyes:

In fact Old Harry has said everything I'd say.
 
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I occupy a space in a caravan storage area. I put my boat and trailer there when i was waiting for a marina berth. There are about 5 other boats there.

As soon as i got a berth, the boat went into the water, but i kept the storage space for the trailer.

Now when i visit the trailer to check it, the 5 ither boats are getting greener and greener, and obviously have never moved.

but if i have an afternoon off work, or get up early on a sunday, i can nip out for a sail.

So for me, and i guess many others, the cost of a berth is justified by the pleasure of sailing the boat.
 
At the time in Melbourne when to go for a sail meant a drive of 20kms through the city I fitted drum brakes. Over ride hydraulic. These gave trouble with the alloy piston ceasing up in the cylinder. (brakes jambed on) I made nylon replacements which made it all quite successful. Since moving across the country 30 years ago I have removed the brake components and basically hope Mr Plod does not check me. My regular trip to the water now for summer season is only .5km so done quite slow.
Yes brakes do magnify the maintenance work needed. I think most trailer boats now have variations of mechanical over ride disc brakes or electric operated from the tow vehicle.
Around here every second man and his dog seem to have a trailer boat (mobo) in their yard. Not always used a lot. and surprisingly frequently stolen.
olewill
 
Some vans are very capable as towing vehicles: My 3.5 tonne transit can tow over 3.5 tonnes (7.25 train weight, from memory) though brake systems limit it to 3.5 t in practical terms.
 
Thanks all. I've found a cheap biggish van with a gross train weight of 4900kg and a kerb weight of 1875kg.... so should be legal as long as I don't load up too much gear as well. Once I've got my B+E licence anyway.

The boat will probably still spent it's time on a mooring in Conwy in summer, but this way it's easy for me to move the boat back and forth when I want to and to get the trailer back to it's storage space. I've also been renting a shipping container to store boat related tools and detritus (I live in a city center flat) - the van can now store that so with that and saving on towing fees it should pay for itself.

And if I want to tow the boat up to Scotland or down to the broads for a couple of weeks... I can.

gertie.jpg
 
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Can't let this thread go without bringing up the 85% guide (note: not rule) as no-one else has, sorry if it's common knowledge. It's a guide because some vehicles are exceptions, like Land Rovers.

Whatever the weights, the trailer should not weigh more than 85% of the towing vehicle. So once you've worked out the maths of gross and train weights, chuck your gear in the car/van and not the boat/caravan.
Your van sounds a bit flimsy to me at 1875kg as 85% is around 1600kg but the Horizon is 1800kg + around 500kg for a trailer. I'm getting the boat weight from the net so I could be wrong.
The trouble with vans for towing is that they are designed light to take a payload and furthermore, light at the back; not good for keeping control of a trailer. Better off with a good 4x4.

You'll get away with anything though, if you drive very slowly, very carefully or if you're born lucky. You could get away with towing at 70mph with an unbalanced rig for years until the day you have to swerve/stopquickly/get caught by a crosswind gust. Thankfully you guys posting here are all responsible (ish).

Anyone towing or thinking about it should read the safety/law section of the NTTA's website: http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/
 
Floyd Raser said:
Can't let this thread go without bringing up the 85% guide (note: not rule) as no-one else has, sorry if it's common knowledge. It's a guide because some vehicles are exceptions, like Land Rovers.

Whatever the weights, the trailer should not weigh more than 85% of the towing vehicle. So once you've worked out the maths of gross and train weights, chuck your gear in the car/van and not the boat/caravan.
Your van sounds a bit flimsy to me at 1875kg as 85% is around 1600kg but the Horizon is 1800kg + around 500kg for a trailer. I'm getting the boat weight from the net so I could be wrong.
The trouble with vans for towing is that they are designed light to take a payload and furthermore, light at the back; not good for keeping control of a trailer. Better off with a good 4x4.

You'll get away with anything though, if you drive very slowly, very carefully or if you're born lucky. You could get away with towing at 70mph with an unbalanced rig for years until the day you have to swerve/stopquickly/get caught by a crosswind gust. Thankfully you guys posting here are all responsible (ish).

Anyone towing or thinking about it should read the safety/law section of the NTTA's website: http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/
Click to expand...


Thanks Floyd. I've heard of the 85% thing and I've got to admit I'm unlikely to be following it in this case, which I've thought about and does concern me. I ruled out a 4x4 because for this to make any kind of economic sense I need the storage capacity of the van.

My plan for compensating.... Get some decent driver training, transfer any heavy kit from the boat to the van when towing and most of all.... drive slowly. Very slowly. My father-in-law is a HGV driver, he towed the boat over the penines with his ex army landie. Up some of the hills he was only doing 15mph. If the pro can go that slow so can I. I'll just make sure I pull over often to let people past!

The NTTA website is interesting thanks - am taking a look!
 
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The brakes are there for a reason ..to be safe to yourself and others
Anyone know what are the penalty's for driving with an illegal trailer anyway?
 
Niander said:
The brakes are there for a reason ..to be safe to yourself and others
Anyone know what are the penalty's for driving with an illegal trailer anyway?
Click to expand...

No sorry - but I just want to be clear that although I don't think you were implying it I'm NOT intending to be driving an illegal setup.
 
yachtailsa said:
Thanks Floyd. I've heard of the 85% thing and I've got to admit I'm unlikely to be following it in this case, which I've thought about and does concern me. I ruled out a 4x4 because for this to make any kind of economic sense I need the storage capacity of the van.

My plan for compensating.... Get some decent driver training, transfer any heavy kit from the boat to the van when towing and most of all.... drive slowly. Very slowly. My father-in-law is a HGV driver, he towed the boat over the penines with his ex army landie. Up some of the hills he was only doing 15mph. If the pro can go that slow so can I. I'll just make sure I pull over often to let people past!

The NTTA website is interesting thanks - am taking a look!
Click to expand...

To answer the original question: No, you're not mad. At least on one count!
Your Father in law must be a decent chap if he's a HGV driver. When he's not looking, nick the Landie. They're not fast but it will pull your house!
 
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