Alternator conrollers

Well, the situation is this....Sterling buy a product designed and made by a third party. The designers decided that user programming was desirable to accommodate batteries of different types around the world. Some of us build up from 2V cells, 6V or 12V batteries, and of widely different types. Also, the usage can vary enormously.

So Sterling buy this product, badge it and inhibit this programmability. Not a good start, in my opinion, but why do they leave reference to programming in the manual??? Then refuse to discuss it when anyone asks why it doesn't seem to be working?

There is no excuse. It is pretty poor stuff.
 
Re: Don\'t think so...

Reckon you're splitting hairs here, Brian! When I said that increasing the alternator's output voltage boosts the charge current, I was trying to explain in simple terms the apparent effects of a smart regulator, so that it could be understood by people who know a lot less about these matters than you do.
 
Re: Don\'t think so...

Right, let's talk this through. You have a stator that produces the high current load output, which is rectified and is the output to the batteries. Across this output there is a regulator module with a fixed target voltage (which is the whole problem with simple regulators). This regulator has one wire that goes to a brush on the field coil. The voltage on that wire is varied under the control of the advanced controller and this varies the current in the field coil. The more current that goes through the field coil, the higher the output voltage from the alternator, so this one wire from the standard regulator can keep the output voltage constant over a wide range of conditions. This is what we start with, before we add an advanced regulator.

With an advanced regulator, we solder a wire onto the brush that is connected to the output of the standard regulator and the controller forces the signal on that wire higher or lower according to what the advanced regulator wants to happen. So while it is true that the new controller is piggy-backed onto the standard one, it is not limited to increasing the voltage on the field drive, the output circuit (presumably a power transistor) can also sink current and reduce the field drive.
 
Fitted an Adverc to previous boat. Clear instructions, helpful staff on 'phone, and the product worked well.

For present boat, rejected Stirling on basis of bad feedback on this forum about aftersales ("Mr. Angry").

Becuase it is about half the Adverc cost, I chose Merlin AMS. Very poor fitting instructions, mediocre aftersales. Had a rant on this furum about it, and after another forumite PM'd me with same problem, we compared notes and I successfully fitted the unit. It works well.
 
Totally agree with you about Sterling's aftersales - or lack of it. I had a run-in with Merlin in Jan 2005 and had a barney with their MD. I was not impressed with his attitude.
 
I\'m sorry, but you\'re wrong...

There are 2 basic types of "smart" alternator regulators. The simple type works in conjunction with the alternator's own internal regulator - products in this category include Adverc, Sterling, Merlin. This type only increases the alternator's output voltage, it can't reduce it to produce a float voltage lower than the alternator's original internal regulator.

Then there is the type which is used instead of the alternator's own regulator (typically to run an externally-regulated alternator) - products in this category include Balmar, Xantrex, CruzPro. These can produce a real 4-stage charge cycle, with a low float voltage.

If you think your Sterling will produce a low float voltage if you tinker with it, please try it, but you'll be disappointed. In ordinary circumstances, I'd suggest you ask the makers, but in Sterling's case you might not get the answer you want. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif However, if you go to the Sterling website and download their 2006 brochure, you'll find a diagram on page 2 showing their "4 step charging curve". Look at it closely and you'll see that whilst their battery chargers drop to 13.5v for float charging, their alternator regulators only drop to the basic 14.0v output of the alternator when on float.
 
Alternator controllers

Firstly, let me stress that we seem to agree about the technology. We seem to disagree about what some of the individual products actually do. I understood that all 'advanced' controllers control the boost and the float levels. I based that on my old Sterling analogue which certainly seemed to do that on my old boat with a Lucas alternator and the Sterling instructions which clearly state that the float level is adjustable with a pot on the PCB. There is no doubt about this, the instructions are clear and explicit though I have not as yet fitted the unit on the present installation or tried to alter the float level. I don't relish the thought of asking Mr Sterling who, based on recent correspondence regarding a friend's new Sterling combi charger, will send me a one-line email telling me to read the manual - if am lucky.

Now, back to advanced controllers in general and the more recent digital Sterling controllers...you have raised an interesting point. If these controllers do not fall back to a float level of around 13.5V given a regulator of 14.5V (e.g. the Yanmar) then those products are totally unsuitable for applications where the engine is expected to run for prolonged periods. Fine for the smaller yacht on short passages but running times greater than 12 hours will result in unnecessary over-charging. I find it hard to believe but I have no way of disputing what you say and I would recommend people not to buy such poor products.
 
Re: Here\'s a quote from Charles...

The arrogance is mind-boggling! But note that this comment is in respect of the digital alternator regulator. Mine is the earlier analogue one and has a pot specifically for the purpose of setting the float level. Interestingly Sterling has the factory setting at 13.6V on my version (according to the manual) but his new digital version, according to the exchanges on that forum, is 14V. Rather too high. Perhaps he has bought-in a programmable model and inhibited the programmability as he has done with the combi. Nothing would surprise me.
 
Ramp-up, tandem and fail safe operation.

To quote Merlin rep at Southampton Boat Show.

The ramp up isn't a ramp up, it is a simple delay before charging commences. It does not then ease the load on, it just switches it on. This means that both engine and belt is warm. A warm engine produces more power than a cold one, and a warm belt is less likely to be damaged.

It does not work in tandem, it takes over the charge control from the alernator.

Fail safe. Can't remember exactly what was said about this, but from the discussion he agreed to my suggestion that a switch in one of the connections would allow standard machine sensed charging to take place. Perhaps this was part of the discussion about zero charging for 10 minutes which is clearly a disadvantage if you have only fired up to charge the battery.
 
Re: Ramp-up, tandem and fail safe operation.

I haven't found Merlin staff particularly knowledgeable on previous BS stands. I had one case in which several staff contradicted each other about a product and in the end they sent me away with a product that wouldn't do what I told them I wanted it to. A 'ramp' implies a gradual increase, not a time delay followed by a instant start.

If advanced controllers are wired in, in the way I think they ought to be, then if the control wire is cut, or switched-out, then the system will revert to standard. So I suspect that if you put a switch in the line you will be able to inhibit the function.

Please note the other thread going on right now in which we are discussing whether these advanced controllers actually force a float charge level. It seems that some don't and that if the original regulator has an output of, say, 14.5V (quite common, and too high for a long passage) then some of these controllers will not cause it to fall back to something more suitable, like 13.6V. Beware, and look in on the other thread where all is being revealed /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
You\'ve reminded me...

You've reminded me why I try to avoid going to boat shows - the stand staff rarely know what they're talking about!

[ QUOTE ]
The ramp up isn't a ramp up, it is a simple delay before charging commences. It does not then ease the load on, it just switches it on.

[/ QUOTE ] According to the Merlin website, "Alternator Controllers are reknowned for causing excessive wear to alternator belts. To counter this, Merlin engineers have incorporated within the charging a system a "ramp up facility". Upon engine start-up, the AMS unit gradually increases alternator output over a timed period."

[ QUOTE ]
It does not work in tandem

[/ QUOTE ] The Merlin literature says "The Merlin AMS is designed to work in conjunction with the standard regulator already built into your existing alternator."

[ QUOTE ]
Fail safe. Can't remember exactly what was said about this

[/ QUOTE ] Well, it does fail safe, as I said. Trust me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top