Alternatives to Sterlings battery to battery charger??

Richard10002

Richard10002

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I cant get away from liking the simplicity of Sterlings' battery to battery charger:

http://www.sterling-power.com/products-battbatt-info.htm

If they do what they say on the tin, they are easily fitted, and 2 would charge my domestic and bowthruster/inverter batteries like never before.

However, there is an issue with radio interference with the Sterling units, (as admitted to another forumite by Sterling himself IIRC)......

so I am wondering if there is a similar product by another manufacturer which is easily fitted, will do the same job, and which has the radio interference well surpressed.

Cheers

Richard
 
Richard

I have used both (a few of each) adverc and sterling alternator chargers which have both done what was said on the tin. They were not difficult to fit if you can use a soldering iron and have soe common sence which I think is not a problem for you.

The resultant benefit is brillant I won't have a boat without one

But thats just MHO
 
common sense is fine, (some wouldnt think so /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ), but my few attempts at soldering have been abysmal, which is why I like the batt/batt charger - and it seems such a simple solution.

If I go the full system route, I'll probably get a new alternator from Balmar or Driftgate, and ask them to solder a connection on for me.
 
[ QUOTE ]
No need to solder either, use crimp terminals and a proper proper crimper. After 21 years on the boat I can honestly say that crimp terminals give no problems!

[/ QUOTE ]

With the usual alternator controllers, you generally have to solder one of their wires to one of the bushes in the alternator - I dont think there is any other way .... with the Batt/batt charger, it doesnt go near the alternator, so that's part of the attraction.
 
[ QUOTE ]
A new alternator sounds the very expensive route........

[/ QUOTE ]

The current alternator is only 50A, and has a peculiar splitter built into it, (thus providing 2 outputs B+1 and B+2), which might be the reason it only produces 13.6 volts, (dropping 0.7V over the diodes in the splitter)... so I wouldnt class the cost of an alternator as part of the cost of sorting out the battery system as it isnt vital, but would just be sensible to do at the same time.

I'm thinking my question might not have been put properly - I was really trying to find out if anyone apart from Sterling made these Battery to Battery chargers, but with better surpression for radio signals, (VHF SSB etc.).

Not that your input hasnt been helpful!!

Richard
 
I don't think the replies you've had so far have understood exactly what the Sterling Battery-to-Battery Charger is. It's certainly an intriguing product, and I'm not aware of anything quite like it from other manufacturers. The possibility of radio interference is a downside.

If you only have a 50A alternator, it might be better to put the money towards a bigger alternator with a "smart" regulator, and then use VSRs or "echo charge" units to look after other batteries.
 
On my former engine, (Volvo MD11C) I had an Adverc and a set of diodes to charge 3 batteries (starter, windlass, domestic).
Having replaced the engine, hence the alternator, my P-type Adverc had to be replaced by a N-type.
Investingating the possibilities, I decided to use a 0 volt "charge splitter" instead.
The advantages being :
- no need to modify the alternator (and loosing the warranty as a consequence),
- no need for a new alternator,
- just one bit of kit added, rather of 2 or 3,
- considerably cheaper,
- the quay charger is connected to the "charge splitter" as well.

The installation of the "charge splitter" is pretty recent, thus no long term experience, but my batteries are kept reasonably charged in "no time".

Such "charge splitter" are available either from Mastervolt ("Battery Mate"), or Vetus ("Battery Splitter").

One more remark :
as an electical engineer, I am very suspicious of electronic equipment needing a ventilator. It's a pretty sure sign of "cheap" engineering.
 
[ QUOTE ]
One more remark : as an electical engineer, I am very suspicious of electronic equipment needing a ventilator. It's a pretty sure sign of "cheap" engineering.

[/ QUOTE ]Guess you've got a cheap computer then. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Yesssss Sir,
At least at home.
And please .... I hope you don't pretend the computers are high quality products.
.... And the windoz software either.

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Computer quality...

[ QUOTE ]
And please .... I hope you don't pretend the computers are high quality products.

[/ QUOTE ]Your computers may not be high quality, but even high quality computers use ventilation fans. Don't dismiss products on the basis of ill-founded preconceptions.

Your choice of a "charge splitter" was no doubt cheaper, but it won't give you the advantages of a higher voltage (and therefore quicker) charge which the Adverc alternator regulator gave.
 
I haven't seen a similar product but Sterling seem to badge some of their advanced products. A yachtsman here bought a Sterling combi unit last year and had problems. It turned out that thoughtful and knowledgeable Mr Sterling had had some of the user programmable functions blocked because he didn't think that customers needed them or could cope with them. Actually, the yachtsman was a radio ham and the real puzzle was why the Sterling unit did not do what the manufacturer's manual said it should.

Our problems were as a direct result of Sterling's mucking about with a perfectly good product that they have badged - i.e. had shipped in a Sterling box from the Far East, one assumes pre-bent /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

So, keeping that story in mind, the battery to battery charger is probably made by someone else in the FE. If you can search the internet you might find out who, and maybe find another distributor - e.g. US, Australian, or whatever. You might get some sense.

Otherwise, you could take a gamble if you have a friendly radio ham who will spend a few hours. It takes quite a bit of knowledge and skill to suppress a powerful inverter but it can be done - he might at least suppress it on the bands you are interested in. If that fails you could turn it off when you need the radio (which is what I have to do with my Megapulse battery de-sulphator). Not ideal, but a work-around. You could ask the Amateur Radio club on Malta, someone might be happy to help you for a few beers and a day sail?
 
Back to basics. To charge a battery fast you need higher voltage. ie more than the standard 14 volts or so which can be applied to a battery long term as in vehicles without overcharging he battery.

Most aternators have a built in regulator that is set at 14 or so volts. The original smart regulators replaced the built in regulator with one that gives a higher voltage and with the 4 stage charging at variable voltage. This however required that the alternator be opened up to disconnect the original regulator and wire in the smart reg. The actual alternator output is increased by increasing the field current in the alternator. ie it makes more voltage from the beginning.

The battery to battery regulator/charger actually takes the output of the standard alternator as connected to the engine battery and converts it to AC at a high frequency then rectifies it to produce a higher voltage at the output. The conversion process is regulated to give the 4 stage charging of the domestic battery. The full output of the alternator can be sucked out because the converter will happily run with an input voltage around 13.

Unfortunately this conversion process to AC is not 100 % efficient perhaps 90% or so and the switching to AC provides radio interference. It can be beaten, most inverters or converters for lap tops work with the same circuitry and many are interference free.

The inefficiency means that to get 30 amps into your domestic battery it will take something like 40 amps from the alternator.

I think the controller wired into the alternator with a VSR to the domestic battery is the most efficient way with no interference.
regards olewill
 
[ QUOTE ]
The inefficiency means that to get 30 amps into your domestic battery it will take something like 40 amps from the alternator.

I think the controller wired into the alternator with a VSR to the domestic battery is the most efficient way with no interference.
regards olewill

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed on both counts - and I'm talking sriously to Driftgate about a new regulator, (90A), and a system from their products.

But I'm also considering what seems to be a simple option, and am having difficulty getting away from it.

Thanks for the input - most helpful.

Richard
 
Slave charging unit...

The slave charging unit works rather differently, somewhat similar to a VSR, and can't boost the charge voltage at all (unlike the Sterling Battery to Battery Charger).
 
Have you sorted the volt drop problems yet ?

By far the simplest system is that fitted to Halcyon Dreams when I bought her. The previous owner had fitted a alternator to the Sabb 8hp, running on the flat of the flywheel. The battery sense wire ( you have one ? ), was feed to a wire wound resister with a sliding taping. Battery voltage was feed in one end, and the battery sense wire connected to the sliding clamp. So by sliding the clamp down you got more volt drop, so the alternator saw a lower sense voltage, so your output regulation voltage went up. No reason you cannot use a rotory pot on the switch board next to a voltmeter. No electronics, no soldering, and no mods to alternator.

But sort out volt drop first, could be a fault that come back to bite you one day.

Brian
 
I'm hazy on the battery to battery stuff but it may cure an irritation. Jedi runs two 24V banks for starting and domestic, tapping both centrally for 12V as required. All the bridge electronics are 12V and, when the engines are started, everything goes off. VHF and GPS are not a real pain most of the time on the river, but losing all the settings on the depthguage/fishfinder is a right pain. Would a 24V-12V charger and separate battery for nav gear solve that one by maintaining power when the starters are twirling?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Have you sorted the volt drop problems yet ?

The battery sense wire ( you have one ? ), was feed to a wire wound resister with a sliding taping.


[/ QUOTE ]

Brian,

when you say volt drop, do you mean the fact that the alternator only produces 13.6 volts?

If so, it is either because it's an older alternator and that is what it is designed to do or:

there is a plate on the back of the alternator which provides 2 take off points... the B+1 and B+2.. here is what Ray of driftgate tech support says:

"The alternator is basically a standard alternator with an add on circuit which consists of plates with 2 standard diodes on to provide isolated outputs to feed separate battery banks. Ideally the sense wire should compensate for the voltage drop caused by the diodes in order to provide reasonable charging. However there are short falls with the system because of the possible differential volt drop."

so I'm guessing it's likely that the diodes are causing the voltage drop, notwithstanding the sense wire.

If you recall, it was messing about with the sense wire that cocked up my rev counter, (albeit it could be coincidence), so you can appreciate my reluctance to mess again /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

However, connecting the sense wire to the domestic bank had no effect on charge rate - I didnt get as far as connecting the sense wire to the bow battery as I was at anchor.

I do have an old 200Ah battery sitting in the forecabin which now registers about 8 volts, and was wondering if I could find a way of sensing off this battery.... I'm guessing that would make the alternator work to its full capacity, but I'm not sure what to connect this batterys' negative to, or whether it's a sensible idea at all /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif a bit like your sliding clamp, but without the slide so no control?

I've got a few months to deal with this now, and have bought the Honda EU20i generator, so am hopefull covered for charging without running the main engine, (as long as I can get petrol).

Thanks for the input - there seems to be a number of ways of skinning this cat.

Richard
 
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