Alternative conversion of a yacht with twin lifting keels to use as weekender on UK canals

[OUR BOZ]

As I am getting a trifle too old and stiff for sailing my sea-going 3 berth 19 footer these days I wondered if it is possible and permissible to use it minus the mast and rigging of course as a weekend boater on the UK canals it would not require much of a draft. This would be great if so and my wife who feared sea voyages would be happy to come along on a canal trip. By using an electric eco friendly outboard to plod along what could be more fun. As we live in West Wales the Mon and Breck would be ideal just an hour or two's drive away to get started.

 

[Boater Sam]

Beam and draught? Canals are 7' wide mostly and 3' deep at best.
Are you aware of the boat safety certificate, insurance and licensing regulations?
Ask the Canal & River Trust.

 

[MisterBaxter]

Yes, I see a few similar small sailing boats on the inland waterways. But as mentioned above, draught, licence, gas safety cert all to be considered.

 

[William_H]

I reckon your little boat would do very nicely on canals subject to beam limitations and possibly susceptible to gunwhale damage in locks. All assuming you have enough accommodation on 19ft sail boat. Easy to take rigging off and store it. So easy to revert if it is all a bad idea.
Not sure about "twin lifting keels". I have never heard of that before. Perhaps just one lifting keel. Which could be kept lifted or partially lowered.
As said safety certificate is needed for inland water ways. Gas approval may be difficult. Spirit cooker much easier. ol'will

 

[Boathook]

You will require a method of charging the electric outboard if you are going to use it for more than about 3 hours.

 

[waynes world]

Would not be a problem at all. here is a file of dimensions which i think you will be ok but check headroom aswell as draught. You may need to remove any keels or skegs if you have any.

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/32433-waterway-dimensions.pdf


Of you not up on inland cruising look at the CRT website, but all you need is insurance, cheap enough. BSS, easy enough even more so if you have no petrol. And a home mooring.

done canals for years and i am now the opposite and fed up of them and want to try the sea. nice chill out at times though if you get a good canal.

CFaffer

 

[JerryRhum]

I have a 19ft Mirror Offshore on the Grand Union Canal.

I'd agree with Boathook that battery charging is going to be a big issue. I have two Halfords leisure batteries lasting 3 to 4 hours each when travelling at about 3mph. That means you are looking at 21 miles before you need to take them off and charge them. It also means getting the car near the boat, batteries are heavy.

I do use the batteries for pottering about but on the odd occasion that I need to get somewhere, I fire up the Seagull. It's surprisingly loud on a narrow waterway.

In terms of draft, I am 1.90ft. Most of the GUC is deeper than that, but a couple of times I have got a bit stuck mooring up or having to move over for a widebeam coming the other way.

Please don't let any of this put you off the idea. I love having the boat close to hand and being able to disappear off for an hour or two here and there. Sometimes I just pop down, put the kettle on and read a book.

This is me on a quick trip out on my lunchbreak.

 

[ProDave]

I would say sell it as a sailing boat, and buy a canal / river cruising boat to replace it. A boat designed for a canal will be a more square shape, i.e. parallel sides, and built to the max dimensions of the canal and will give you a lot more accommodation for a given length of boat.

 

[JerryRhum]

I would say sell it as a sailing boat, and buy a canal / river cruising boat to replace it. A boat designed for a canal will be a more square shape, i.e. parallel sides, and built to the max dimensions of the canal and will give you a lot more accommodation for a given length of boat.

That is definitely the best idea. if you have the money.

Unfortunately, even if you have £10k to spare, you'll only get a 'small' narrowboat, that needs a new engine and replating. If you are very lucky it may only have sunk once or twice.

 

[Refueler]

I reckon your little boat would do very nicely on canals subject to beam limitations and possibly susceptible to gunwhale damage in locks. All assuming you have enough accommodation on 19ft sail boat. Easy to take rigging off and store it. So easy to revert if it is all a bad idea.
Not sure about "twin lifting keels". I have never heard of that before. Perhaps just one lifting keel. Which could be kept lifted or partially lowered.
As said safety certificate is needed for inland water ways. Gas approval may be difficult. Spirit cooker much easier. ol'will

I have a twin lift keel boat similar size here for use on rivers ... but we don't have BWA to contend with .... as long as CEVNI - we are fine.

I too am thinking to leave the mast and rigging off ..... most of the time - she's running on the 5hp Johnson at back ...

At present she's in the barn ready to start renovating cabin etc. add new rubber fendering to hull joint ....

As can be seen - a lot less boat than other have ... but still very good for pottering about and weekends away .... beauty of rivers / canals - if cabin is limited - then there's always tent / room ashore ... or sleep in cockpit on fine night ...

Obviously as others mention - BWA rules must be followed .... so that's a consideration ...

 

[vyv_cox]

I would say sell it as a sailing boat, and buy a canal / river cruising boat to replace it. A boat designed for a canal will be a more square shape, i.e. parallel sides, and built to the max dimensions of the canal and will give you a lot more accommodation for a given length of boat.

I did more damage to my sailing boat in 2 weeks in the Canal du Midi than I have in 40 years on the sea! Fendering suitable for locks is very different from what is needed in marinas. With engine controls to starboard it can be very difficult to come alongside very low walls to port.

 

[William_H]

Hello Nigel. Lovely photo as always. But tell me about the twin lift keels. Are they swing or drop. Is the case under floor or extending up in to cabin. How close to gunwhales are they. I can't see any sign of lift keels externaly from photo.
To OP something like this might be worth the cost to make cockpit more comfortable. https://www.whitworths.com.au/shop?q=Bimini
OP might need to modify (swing) rudder if it is to operate in shallow water. make a shallow blade of larger chord to provide easy steerage.
ol'will

 

[debenriver]

This is my Design #119 – 17'6" 3-berth yawl – the builder of this one used her very successfully for several years on the English canals before rigging and sailing her at sea. Beam 6'10" draft 1'4" (board up). Outboard in a well in the cockpit (which is full length – 1.940m – so OK to sleep in if required).





Cheers -- George

 

[Halo]

I took my Westerly 25 coast to coast via Leeds Liverpool canal with the mast on deck. Great fun.
Boats should be about fun so give it a go ! You will have to get swmbo to either steer or open the locks which may be the biggest problem.
For fenders I put old car tyres down one side and all my fenders down the other. Worked fine.
Grokels in hire boats are the biggest hassle- a bit like SUV drivers on narrow roads who won’t get closer than 2m to the hedges

 

[Refueler]

Hello Nigel. Lovely photo as always. But tell me about the twin lift keels. Are they swing or drop. Is the case under floor or extending up in to cabin. How close to gunwhales are they. I can't see any sign of lift keels externaly from photo.
To OP something like this might be worth the cost to make cockpit more comfortable. https://www.whitworths.com.au/shop?q=Bimini
OP might need to modify (swing) rudder if it is to operate in shallow water. make a shallow blade of larger chord to provide easy steerage.
ol'will

Hi Will ....

The keels are metal swing plates that hinge up into the cabin. The casings are actually the bunk sides with a bolt through. Keels up - draft 20cms, keels down ~1.2m.

The mechanism to lift / drop is simple ... a line from each keel passes via a tube up into transom and out to cleats either side. To drop the keels - release the lines ... to lift - pull up the lines.

 

[William_H]

Hi Will ....

The keels are metal swing plates that hinge up into the cabin. The casings are actually the bunk sides with a bolt through. Keels up - draft 20cms, keels down ~1.2m.

The mechanism to lift / drop is simple ... a line from each keel passes via a tube up into transom and out to cleats either side. To drop the keels - release the lines ... to lift - pull up the lines.

Thanks Nigel sounds like an excelent way to fit swing keel case in to a cabin. I have seen a centre case that really messes up the cabin floor or is a deep stub keel. Mine is a drop keel and takes up space from mast support post aft for about a metre. ol'will

 

[Refueler]

Thanks Nigel sounds like an excelent way to fit swing keel case in to a cabin. I have seen a centre case that really messes up the cabin floor or is a deep stub keel. Mine is a drop keel and takes up space from mast support post aft for about a metre. ol'will

The Snapdragon 23 my father had many years ago had a swing keel case as you describe ... only way to hide it - was as designed : Table with drop leafs. It made getting around cabin a pain.

I suppose the designers of the Kormoran - that's the model name from Poland - took the idea of leeboards and instead of hanging overside - found a way to incorporate into structure.

The boat actually sails like a pig ... makes as much leeway as going fwd ! But its a good boat to teach people and for days on the river ...

 

[Stemar]

That is definitely the best idea. if you have the money.

Unfortunately, even if you have £10k to spare, you'll only get a 'small' narrowboat, that needs a new engine and replating. If you are very lucky it may only have sunk once or twice.

I don't think I'd want a narrowboat for £10K - even a small one. However, there are lots of other kinds, plastic fantastics around for not a lot of money. I'd look for a Norman 23 or similar, which shouldn't be more than about £4k with a decent outboard. Yes, they're old but a loved one could still be a good buy, and even a neglected one as long as the price is right.

 

[Refueler]

I don't think I'd want a narrowboat for £10K - even a small one. However, there are lots of other kinds, plastic fantastics around for not a lot of money. I'd look for a Norman 23 or similar, which shouldn't be more than about £4k with a decent outboard. Yes, they're old but a loved one could still be a good buy, and even a neglected one as long as the price is right.

Shetland 2+2 is a good candidate as well .... if I could find one over here - it would be perfect for the river ...

But lets be honest .... OP has a boat he can de-rig and use ... no money spent other than getting it sorted for BWA Licence ... he knows his boat ... so no box of unknown to get toi grips with ...

 

[MisterBaxter]

The drop keels would be a great help on occasion for close maneuvers in strong winds, to go slowly without being blown sideways, and to turn the boat on the spot by pivoting the outboard to ninety degrees. There were a number of times when a drop keel would have made life a lot easier for my old narrow boat.