All this talk about 'Ensign protocol' got me thinking!

[OGITD]

Time for some 'fun' with the 'Skimmers' ....

Now-then ..... if I remember correctly .... (& I don't think there's much chance of that!)

The 'junior' vessel pipes the 'still' .... then lowers their Ensign, followed by the 'senior' vessel (the 'still' & ensign lowered) .... then the 'senior' pipes the 'carry-on' ..... followed by the raising of his Ensign followed by the 'junior' vessel doing exactly the same.

Well! ..... SWMBO did say I have to have a tidy-up / clear-out ..... and I do know I have a couple of Boatswains-Calls with chains in one of the many boxes .....

But this leads me on to the question:

Is there anywhere else you can fly your Ensign apart from the Staff on the transom .... as it's impossible to 'Dip' from there?

I could fly it from the spreaders ... but does that indicate that I'm at War!??

 

[jrc1983]

Technically, ensigns should only be flown from the stern when at anchor or alongside, when underway they should be flown from the gaff. Naturally that's quite impractical with smaller stuff so a pole on the back end will have to do!
They can be flown from mastheads, but that's only when dressing ship for a special occasion.
I could wax lyrical about how things used to be done during the sunset 'ceremony' on cargo ships owned by the mighty BI (British India Line) which would certainly amuse the RN contingent here and amaze some other MN people. Just the sort of thing the time and motion people had heart failure about!

 

[prv]

Is there anywhere else you can fly your Ensign apart from the Staff on the transom .... as it's impossible to 'Dip' from there?

Well, in Kindred Spirit I flew mine from the peak of the mizzen gaff, on a halyard, so could easily have dipped it though I never did.

On a boring bermudan sloop I guess you could lash a ring or small block part-way up the backstay, with a halyard through it, and hoist the ensign up there. Should be dippable.

I believe the suggested technique with a stubby little pushpit staff is to unplug it from its socket but hold the base in place as if still attached. Then lower the staff to the horizontal. Of course you need a tall enough transom (or small enough ensign) not to trail it in the water.

Pete

 

[OGITD]

Thanks Pete!

On a boring bermudan sloop I guess you could lash a ring or small block part-way up the backstay, with a halyard through it, and hoist the ensign up there. Should be dippable.Pete

"a boring bermudan sloop" .... thanks ....

"small block part-way up the backstay" .... it's what I was thinking .... so THANKS!

 

[prv]

"a boring bermudan sloop" .... thanks ....

Heh, I too have joined the ranks of the two white triangles this year. The new boat is much better in many ways. But there's no denying that Kindred Spirit (24' gaff yawl with four tan sails, bowsprit, bumkin, etc) was far more interesting and beautiful.

Pete

 

[john_morris_uk]

Many years ago (when people who went yachting had a rather different mind set to contemporary sailors) there was an letter/small article in Yachting Monthly about how to put a length of bungy cord in the hoist of your ensign so you could lean back and dip it with one hand while holding the tiller with the other.

For some reasn I can't imagine the editors of YM publishing such an article nowadays.

However I should point out that we still dip to warships when we have the opportunity. This either shows that I am an old fashioned grumpy old so and so or I just like to keep proper traditions and protocols alive.

 

[Laundryman]

"Contemporary Sailors"? Not sure about that one. My Ensign only comes out when the wife is on board. You know, like the queen at Windsor " is the flag up yet Phill? Yes there is little etiquette practiced in my sailing. I sail because I enjoy it, not to impress. In fact I have a number of sailing'Bad Habits'. And if people are annoyed or wound up by them, I'm heartbroken. The next time you see someone sailing with their fenders out, say hello cos its me! Thanks. Alan

 

[PhillM]

I do think its nice to keep some traditions alive. I'm in no way connected to the armed forces, but I think that showing respect for our Navy is generally a good thing. Anyway as a Britsh ship, you never know when you will need / want them.

I have only had the opportunity to dip twice. Once to illustrious in Southampton water and either she did not see me or was too busy avoiding the hundreds of other boats about at the time and once to F235 HMS Monmouth, just outside of Yarmouth on a calm clear evening and we were the only two vessels in sight. She did dip back and it made mine and my nippers day.

 

[john_morris_uk]

"Contemporary Sailors"? Not sure about that one. My Ensign only comes out when the wife is on board. You know, like the queen at Windsor " is the flag up yet Phill? Yes there is little etiquette practiced in my sailing....

I wasn't meaning to imply or make any value judgement about how values change. It was more of a case of my noting how people had different attitudes a few years ago!

 

[Uricanejack]

There are some traditions I enjoy. Dipping my ensign is one of them.
Unfortunately far more often than not. I get no response.
At first I was slightly offended by the snub of an unreturned salute.
I wondered if such traditions were no longer followed.
Now I have come to the conclusion they just don’t bother to keep a lookout.
I should point out my local Navy is the Royal Canadian Navy and Occasionally the USN.
In the past my salute was returned by The Navy.
I once dipped 5 French Frigates all in line in the Sound of Mull 1984 I think. All retuned. I did kind of wonder why 5 French frigates were there. Thought they might be dropping of a descendent of some old pretender.
I was very impressed by my Salute being retuned by the USS Iowa.

 

[Woodlouse]

When Bermudan rig started to become more popular the advice was to fly the ensign from a point 2/3rds up the leech of the mainsail. I suppose that 2/3rds of the way up the backstay is a good compromise.

If I fly an ensign then it's flown from the gaff. I usually only hoist it when I'm likely to encounter warships which is quite infrequent. In port I hang it from the end of the boom.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I reckon the OP might well be wasting his time. The idea of grey funnel line ships dipping to yachts has probably gone west along with such concepts as polished boots, smart turnout, bu66ery and the lash.

 

[jrc1983]

I reckon the OP might well be wasting his time. The idea of grey funnel line ships dipping to yachts has probably gone west along with such concepts as polished boots, smart turnout, bu66ery and the lash.

I recall that when HMY Britannia visited Oban circa 1995 (may have even been her last cruise in 97), the car ferry Isle of Mull dipped to her as they passed in Oban Bay, IOM outbound for Craignure and Britannia inbound. Nobody on Britannia noticed except for Phil the Greek, who then started roaring at an Officer nearby whereupon a matelot was despatched with haste to the stern to dip her ensign in return.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

If an RN ship does not return your dipped ensign salute, drop them a line and complain. This has been done before and you may find the response is very supportive. I remember one response which apologised, another in YM, where some senior person stated that his men should be keeping a lookout and notice these things, he also reiterated that the RN has not done away with this tradition. So. if you do and they don't, drop them line and complain about their unprofessional behaviour.

When I dip my ensign I just pick up the staff, lower it so that it is just below the horizontal and wait for the return before picking it up and placing it back in its socket. It appeared to do the job.

 

[stuarta]

Some years ago I was onboard an SSBN (submarine) sailing for patrol. There was some consternation onboard and among our security vessels (there were fewer then than now) about the presence of a Greenpeace vessel in the Clyde. Sure enough we encountered her in the Cumbrae Gap and while we half expected to have to repel boarders or somesuch inconvenience all she did was dip her ensign. To be honest it was the last thing we were expecting but were able to return the salute in good time.

 

[Woodlouse]

I reckon the OP might well be wasting his time. The idea of grey funnel line ships dipping to yachts has probably gone west along with such concepts as polished boots, smart turnout, bu66ery and the lash.

Nah, I dipped to an RN frigate in the Kiel canal last summer and it was returned. It's best to do so when they're either overtaking or passing close going the other way. That way you can be sure someone is watching you from the bridge. As long as they see you dip then they'll respond.

 

[A1Sailor]

However I should point out that we still dip to warships when we have the opportunity. This either shows that I am an old fashioned grumpy old so and so or I just like to keep proper traditions and protocols alive.

Either that or you want to see if the OOW will order some poor sod (naval rating!) to emerge from the bridge in the pi**ing wet rain to acknowledge your dip!

 

[Deleted member 36384]

.... "small block part-way up the backstay" .... it's what I was thinking .... so THANKS!

If you go this route I suggest that you lash the block on. I have used small bull dog clips and the topping lift and leech line have on occasion all fouled a bull dog clip (with the bolts facing aft). Just a suggestion.