Alcohol stove burning rich

MM5AHO

MM5AHO

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Last winter I installed an alcohol (Origo 3000 lookalike from Compass in Germany) stove. It replaced a worn out gas stove.
It burns a little rich leaving a sot deposit on pot/kettle bottoms.

Anyone found an easy solution to that?
I wonder about somehow increasing the airflow in the little chimney between the fuel cannister top and the grill that supports the kettle?
I've been using methylated spirit so far. I don't know the ethanol / methanol mix.
 
I have a 3000, also a Trangia used for camping. I understand the soot to be normal or a negative consequence of this type of stove.

I have heard that a small amount of water added to the meths reduces the problem. But never tried it myself. Sounds to me like it would lake longer to heat up.
 
In France I use Alcool à Bruler which is readily available and burns well. I expect the equivalent is obtainable here.

Wipe some washing-up liquid on the bottom of the pan or kettel before use. It makes it easier to clean afterwards.
 
You can get bio ethanol at B&Q. I "think" it burns a little cleaner than meths, but in all honesty I suspect that's wishful thinking. A certain amount of sootiness is inevitable. Sootiness can be lack of air, but on a device like an Origo it is far more likely to be a chilled flame effect from operating on the cold underside of a kettle or pan. I don't think it is usually serious provided you have proper ventilation, but on the other hand I don't think you can do much about it either and I wouldn't advise modifying the burning characteristics of the appliance.

If possible find somebody else with an Origo or its Compass copy ( was it really a copy?) And ask if you can compare notes to see if yours is typical.
 
I believe the Origo was not designed for meths which is a UK substitute. I started using Industrial Meths IMA ethanol at day 1 and it is more pleasant and nearer to what the Origo should use to get soot free operation . It was a bit of a pain as declarations had to be are annually re usage. Now you can get Ethanol in B and Q etc though the price now is more than a few years ago. It is relatively odour free and seems to do the job. Try it and you probably will agree.

Adding 10% water to the blue Meths helps modify the air to fuel fuel ratio so less soot but not much else smell.
 
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As others state, it's quite normal for a sooty deposit on the underside of pans. Bio-Ethanol is my preferred fuel, as it doesn't have any of the obtrusive side effects that come with UK meths.
 
a. Adding water to meths will eventually lead to a build up of water in the canister and reduced output. Then you will have to cook the canister out to remove the water.

b. The first thing I would suggest to the OP is trying other brands of alcohol. Higher alcohols and some denaturing agents cause soot. No, it is NOT unavoidable. On the other hand, it washes off easily.
 
Alcool à Bruler used to be impossible to find in the UK, with bio-ethanol being the most readily available substitute, which I believe is the same stuff. The UK meths is pretty much the same as well, but for the 'vile' purple toxin added to render it undrinkable(ish) by the UK govt, which also gives off the 'gas' which is an irritant to many folks eyes.
 
jamie N said:
Alcool à Bruler used to be impossible to find in the UK, with bio-ethanol being the most readily available substitute, which I believe is the same stuff. The UK meths is pretty much the same as well, but for the 'vile' purple toxin added to render it undrinkable(ish) by the UK govt, which also gives off the 'gas' which is an irritant to many folks eyes.
Click to expand...

I think you may need to add a couple of comma's to your post, as it reads at the moment as if the additive in meths is to stop the U.K. government drinking it, ,,,,,,,,but looking at the way we are governed not only by this lot but previous ones maybe you are correct and the government were drinking it, so what are they on now?
 
jamie N said:
The UK meths is pretty much the same as well, but for the 'vile' purple toxin added to render it undrinkable(ish) by the UK govt, which also gives off the 'gas' which is an irritant to many folks eyes.
Click to expand...
There are three different sorts of methylated spirits in the UK, one of which contains no methanol. To quote the Methylated Spirits Regulations 1987 No 2009:

15.—(1) The 3 classes of methylated spirits referred to in regulation 14 above shall be manufactured by mixing denaturants with spirits and other goods in the following proportions—

(a) in the case of industrial methylated spirits, with every 95 parts by volume of spirits there shall be mixed 5 parts by volume of wood naphtha;

(b) in the case of mineralised methylated spirits, with every 90 parts by volume of spirits there shall be mixed 9.5 parts by volume of wood naphtha and 0.5 parts by volume of crude pyridine, and to the resulting mixture there shall be added mineral naphtha (petroleum oil) in the proportion 7.5 litres to every 2,000 litres of the mixture and synthetic organic dyestuff (methyl violet) in the proportion 3.0 grammes to every 2,000 litres of the mixture;

(c) in the case of denatured ethanol, with every 999 parts by volume of spirits (which shall be of a strength not less than 85 per cent) there shall be mixed 1 part by volume of tertiary butyl alcohol and to the resulting mixture there shall be added “Bitrex” in the proportion 10 microgrammes per millilitre.​

I think the generally available stuff is (b) mineralised methylated spirits, and often contains Bitrex as well.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Thanks, Vic. Nice to see that they still call methanol "wood naphtha".
Click to expand...

Not really. It's more like nasty methanol. A family of methanol-based denaturing agents.
2.6 Wood naphtha and wood naphtha substitutes

Natural wood naphtha is made from the distillation of wood. Natural wood naphtha is not widely available, but substitute wood naphtha (with the same properties as natural wood naphtha) can be used.

The standards for wood naphtha and substitutes for wood naphtha are given in paragraph 7 of the schedule to the Denatured Alcohol Regulations 2005 (reproduced in section 20).

7.—(1) Wood naphtha must, to the satisfaction of the Commissioners, possess such properties as to render a mixture of one part of the naphtha with 19 parts of alcohol of a strength of not less than 95 per cent alcohol by volume unfit for human consumption.

(2) Wood naphtha must contain not less than 72 per cent by volume of methyl alcohol.

(3) In the case of a substitute for wood naphtha—

(a)the substitute must possess, to the satisfaction of the Commissioners, such properties as to render a mixture of one part of the substitute with 19 parts of alcohol, of a strength of not less than 95 per cent alcohol by volume, unfit for human consumption,

(b)all the ingredients and their amounts which are to constitute the substitute must be approved by the Commissioners, and

(c)the substitute must contain as a marker—

(i)not less than 72 per cent by volume of methyl alcohol, or

(ii)2 per cent by volume of tertiary butyl alcohol, or

(iii)such other marker as may be approved by the Commissioners in the proportions specified by them.

To have your own formulation for substitute wood naphtha approved, contact the Excise processing teams (EPT). Your proposed substitute wood naphtha will have to meet the requirements given in section 20 before we’ll consider approving it.

Methyl alcohol (methanol) is not identical to legally defined wood naphtha, or to any approved wood naphtha substitute. You must not use methanol as a direct substitute for wood naphtha in the manufacture of any type of denatured alcohol.
 
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