AIS & ship’s identity

[Kemp]

Hey, programing new AIS for newly registered boat and there is a name field.

I do not see any reason to expose boat's data on public tracking sites (strange these companies have a right to track private boats for profit), so any dickhead is easily able to check movements of any private boat.

So how about entering Official Number or MMSI again? From my perspective Official Number displays boat’s identity perfectly following IMO requirements.

The IMO does state that AIS must provide information including: "ship’s identity, type, position, course, speed, navigational status and other safety-related information." However, in December 2004 the Maritime Safety Committee discussed the issue of privacy when using AIS systems, and condemned the public publication of this data. In reference to this session, the IMO states the Committee, "Urged member governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere from doing so."

Link: IMO AIS transponders

The Crew Report approached the IMO who informed us: "Interpretation of ‘ship’s identity’ is down to the flag state, but each ship has a unique IMO number [and] anyone can search ship name using IMO number using public access sites".

The MCA told The Crew Report: "Depending on where the vessels are operating and depending in the size then carious statutes and instruments apply concerning AIS carriage requirements and the validity of the data that is transmitted. SOLAS carriage requirements may apply with some of the large yachts and so even beyond EU waters there will be legislation that applies. There are provisions in the original IMO carriage requirement whereby AIS could be switched off at the discretion of the master and in instances such as areas of piracy."

 

[Jamie Dundee]

Unless you’re over 300t (I think) you’re not required to have AIS. The regs you quote are for class A AIS, not private individuals with class B

 

[laika]

I do not see any reason to expose boat's data on public tracking sites (strange these companies have a right to track private boats for profit), so any dickhead is easily able to check movements of any private boat.

Your mmsi is publicly linked to your boat's name and to you anyway, so you're not being very secret squirrel by using your mmsi. The primary reason for AIS is safety. If there's an issue and rescue services need to track you or call you, especially if you're incapacitated and your crew aren't aware of the mmsi-for-boat-name thing, is that going to make things complicated?

We all bristled when Scott McNealy said "You have zero privacy anyway...get over it", but 20-odd years later I realise he had a point.

Worst case, just put your AIS onto "silent mode" or switch it off

 

[Kemp]

Unless you’re over 300t (I think) you’re not required to have AIS. The regs you quote are for class A AIS, not private individuals with class B

I know IMO rules are for commercial 300t and class A, but still these rules could be some sort of guidance for class B (in a broader sense).

Your mmsi is publicly linked to your boat's name and to you anyway, so you're not being very secret squirrel by using your mmsi. The primary reason for AIS is safety. If there's an issue and rescue services need to track you or call you, especially if you're incapacitated and your crew aren't aware of the mmsi-for-boat-name thing, is that going to make things complicated?

We all bristled when Scott McNealy said "You have zero privacy anyway...get over it", but 20-odd years later I realise he had a point.

Worst case, just put your AIS onto "silent mode" or switch it off

How MMSI is publicly linked to the boat's name? If you do not initially transmit MMSI with boat's name and it does not get hooked in private DBs... There is no public worldwide DB to link MMSIs with boats.

I do not see any reduction of AIS safety if boat's name is replaced with ON or MMSI. Numbers much easier to "spell", so for non-native speakers are easier to operate. Just try to spell to some non native dude "LAIKA & STRELKA"... it will be much easier for him to grasp ONE TWO NINE ... "Silent Mode" is a reduction of safety element and is not an option.

 

[jwilson]

If you have a correctly and legally licensed VHF I can usually find your name by searching the ITU database with your boat name, call sign or MMSI number. See Ship Station List

If you have an AIS transponder I can then probably find where your boat is via MarineTraffic, or looking on my own AIS receiver if you happen to be in range. This is one area where I think safety over-rides privacy.

It is interesting that when AIS first appeared a few years ago almost every AIS target had their ship name and vessel type popping up on receivers as well as location, course and speed., and sometimes destination etc. More and more though I see less and less data - even for what are clearly big ships from position, course and speed.

 

[[70521]]

Enter your MMSI or boat's name here. Quite easy to go via official sources.

Ship Station List

You might be able to contact Marine Traffic or any of the other vessel tracking sites and ask them nicely not to display your transmission.

I have always found it very useful being shown where I am. Family and friends know where I am and can get the beers in at the bar.

 

[Kemp]

Thanks for the ITU link. I wonder how come cars are not tracked this way, so your wife can track you. Tracking should be voluntary and with consent for a public display (including historic). I do not see any problem if someone wants to show his intestines to the world.

 

[Boathook]

I know IMO rules are for commercial 300t and class A, but still these rules could be some sort of guidance for class B (in a broader sense).


How MMSI is publicly linked to the boat's name? If you do not initially transmit MMSI with boat's name and it does not get hooked in private DBs... There is no public worldwide DB to link MMSIs with boats.

I do not see any reduction of AIS safety if boat's name is replaced with ON or MMSI. Numbers much easier to "spell", so for non-native speakers are easier to operate. Just try to spell to some non native dude "LAIKA & STRELKA"... it will be much easier for him to grasp ONE TWO NINE ... "Silent Mode" is a reduction of safety element and is not an option.

So what is your MMSI ?

 

[Boathook]

Thanks for the ITU link. I wonder how come cars are not tracked this way, so your wife can track you. Tracking should be voluntary and with consent for a public display (including historic). I do not see any problem if someone wants to show his intestines to the world.

Cars don't transmit a GPS location. Having said that if your car has an inbuilt system some of them some of them do transmit your location if you have a crash, plus Google, apple and your phone network provider know where you are to a few meters.

 

[Kemp]

It is interesting that when AIS first appeared a few years ago almost every AIS target had their ship name and vessel type popping up on receivers as well as location, course and speed., and sometimes destination etc. More and more though I see less and less data - even for what are clearly big ships from position, course and speed.

Ship name does not provide any safety and I personally do not care if I see some stupid name or just numbers on AIS screen. Live transmission within VHF range is a different story. I'm talking about public display without consent of private historic movement data. This does not contribute to safety, just to some dickhead trying to sneak up on you..

 

[Billjratt]

Probably, a lot has to do with how comfortable you are using the VHF. Would you respond to a call to your MMSI - or would your crew? I've never memorised any of mine, although I would respond to MPPN5 -my current call-sign, easier to memorise, though again, my crew would not. We all know the boat's name though... and you are only likely to be called via an AIS identification if there's an issue. The boat's name is out there - painted on, and people take pictures then post them all over the place. I think the AIS security issue is only a small percentage of public domain security.

 

[Kemp]

So what is your MMSI ?

Why would you want to know? If I ever decide to show my intestines to the world, you will be the first to find out my MMSI. Okey?

Cars don't transmit a GPS location. Having said that if your car has an inbuilt system some of them some of them do transmit your location if you have a crash, plus Google, apple and your phone network provider know where you are to a few meters.

Do they publish this publicly online? Historic data of crashes and movement? No doubt Google, Apple do this, but is it legal? Phone network providers are regulated by law how they collect and process private data, how long they can legal keep it, etc. And you have a legally binding contract with them. Maybe you have one with e.g. MarineTraffic? I don't.

 

[johnalison]

This is something else that I can’t be bothered to worry about. I cannot conceive any situation where it would be to my disadvantage if my boat’s position were made public. Maybe if I took my mistress off on a cruise after telling my wife that I was working in Scunthorpe it might concern me, but this is unlikely, especially as I am retired. I don’t think though that broadcasting my position outside VHF range contributes much to my safety, though it might help my family trace my remains if I am run down mid-Channel.

 

[t21]

The mmsi is the trackable unique thing, not the name? The name is what you'll be called by other ships/boats. My boat name is Mojo of which there must be hundreds. The mmsi is 202312279 and feel free to check it out! The "name" field doesn't have to be the full name of the boat but it's what others will call you on VHF.

I would say that if you don't put a boat name in there it wouldn't look too good in the event of something happening - no boat name available to call them up on VHF? Which was kinda at least partly the whole point? Otherwise it'll look like some maybe discarded MOB thing and (like dive boats that don't display proper day shapes) others might Oho! nip over and do a bit of "rescuing"! So in my experience which is fairly reasonable, I think definitely show boat name...

 

[Kemp]

I would say that if you don't put a boat name in there it wouldn't look too good in the event of something happening - no boat name available to call them up on VHF?

Wouldn't look good? This seems a hardcore argument. In the event shit hits the fan, I prefer to be called by numbers, clear and loud.

It seems there is very different understanding of privacy... I wouldn't bother to start this thread if AIS would be just live pings in VHF range.

 

[Kemp]

I cannot conceive any situation where it would be to my disadvantage if my boat’s position were made public. Maybe if I took my mistress off on a cruise after telling my wife that I was working in Scunthorpe it might concern me, but this is unlikely, especially as I am retired. I don’t think though that broadcasting my position outside VHF range contributes much to my safety, though it might help my family trace my remains if I am run down mid-Channel.

Lack of fantasy? There are plenty of technical ways to show private trips privately and directly.

 

[[70521]]

Ship name does not provide any safety and I personally do not care if I see some stupid name or just numbers on AIS screen. Live transmission within VHF range is a different story. I'm talking about public display without consent of private historic movement data. This does not contribute to safety, just to some dickhead trying to sneak up on you..

It is the way that many shipping companies follow their ships. There is clearly a need for such a service otherwise it would not pay for itself.

If you are interested there is a fascinating talk about why AIS was introduced on YouTube. All to do with the Intelligence Services, we just get the benefits of using the technology and seeing the data.

Is your mobile phone on in your car, you are being tracked by Google and the likes.

 

[MikeCC]

Compared to what Google, Government, mobile networks, Facebook, Tesco etc already know about you, I think having your boat name/whereabouts in the public domain is the least of your worries. Excuse the pun but that ship has sailed. If it bothers you, just get a bigger radar reflector.

 

[Kukri]

One of the common uses of AIS is to identify a ship in sight or at least in radar range that one might want to speak to on VHF. I will be one of the first to say that the IRPCS make no mention of calling another ship but then the IRPCS are the oldest they have ever been and they make no mention of AIS either.

 

[Kemp]

It is the way that many shipping companies follow their ships. There is clearly a need for such a service otherwise it would not pay for itself.

If you are interested there is a fascinating talk about why AIS was introduced on YouTube. All to do with the Intelligence Services, we just get the benefits of using the technology and seeing the data.

Is your mobile phone on in your car, you are being tracked by Google and the likes.

This is another interesting aspect of commercial AIS use. If we would translate this to land based services and make movements public of every truck... My bet such info is a commercial secret.

Can you live without Google? I do not use Google services on my phone (they are not installed) and quite well understand how technological tracking of mobile devices is implement and regulated.