Aircraft Carriers

[jimi]

Remember the two Aircraft carriers Tony ordered. All of a sudden their price has doubled! Not only that but Portsmouth entrance and approaches needs redredging to accomodate them. Bet that was'nt built into the cost either! Yet another example of TB misleading Parliament and the nation?

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[Guest]

Not surprised. It's the same at the boat show. Add on all the extras and nobody ends up paying ticket price!

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[Mirelle]

Thew Grey Funnel Line are past masters at this sort of trick. Remember, back in the sixties, they were told they could not have any more flat tops, because we could no longer afford to keep up with the Yanks. So Eagle and Ark Royal went to the knackers and they said they would produce something called a Through Deck Cruiser - which turned out to be a pocket aircraft carrier!

What I think has happened here is that the original design spec. was deliberately vague about the aircraft that would be flying off these behemoths, because the JSF (joint strike fighter) design had not yet been finalised and it was unclear whether take off would be VTOL. STOL or conventional. If the latter, of course, much dearer....and guess what!

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[qsiv]

... but the JSF is STOL, not conventional, in its Navy and Marine variants.

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[Twister_Ken]

Nomenclature

If we don't have aircraft carriers then we can legitimately refer to the War Office as the Ministry of Defence. With carriers, it should be called the Ministry of Attack.

Unless, I guess, the carriers are to be used solely to defend the British Merchant Fleet (in which case, the Sea Scouts should be more than adequate).

One more thought - why doesn't HMG do a deal with Sunsail on these. Pay half the price and take ownership in three years. In the meantime, the carriers could be on charter in sunnier climes, with the Andrew using them for a couple of weeks a year in high season.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[tcm]

Re: charter warship

think this is already happening. Note how they all go round in flotillas, hit the bottom and need rescuing, and are utterly knackered after five years. Probably have several holding tanks too, so definitely sunsail.

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[tcm]

Re: TB and Aircraft Carriers

I am afraid that most aspects of what TB does shows that he is expert at grinning boyishly, acting hurt and saying nice words to the media - and not much else. The total lack of wit (expect with reagrd to the above) dominates all actions, and is demonstrated by a lack of principle and policy. He won't have a clue about the warship capabilities, not the use, the cost or anything else. his education secratary didn't even know what seven times nine makes, so it's quite reasonable that TB is daft too. he just signed the docs. Being honest, if I wanted a nice new ship, that's what i'd have done, make it absolutely imperative, and first duty of government is defence of the realm, blah blah, just sign there...

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[jimi]

Re: TB and Aircraft Carriers

.. and ask for two in the hope that you'll get one ... Andrew must have been rather taken aback when they got both ... but they could have taken a bit longer to double the costs though ... a couple of months is really not quite respectable! And why are they dreging Portsmouth just now, wo'nt it need redredging by the time these things actually float ... oh and our taxes are going to go up .. again

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[Mirelle]

Yes, indeed, but knowing the tendency of aircraft to gain weight with age, there may be an issue as to just how short the S in STOL is? The recent TV programme on the selection of the final design from the two prototypes did not seem to show an aircraft with amazingly good STO/VL characteristics at the prototype stage, with weight stripped out left right and centre! Bung in a couple of radars, missiles, guns, armour and computers and fill the tanks and we, er. need a longer runway, maybe? Certainly the ship specs were disarmingly vague.

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[BlueSkyNick]

You can tell when TB is lying...

..... because his lips are moving!

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[GeorgeP]

Why do we need them

?

I remember Douglas Hurd talking about our "need to punch above our our weight" while foreign secretary. What does this mean exactly? Yes I know it's about boxing, but this is a country. I think the current lot are no different in their desire to strut their stuff on the world stage. I don't see a need to be a world policeman, only to protect British interests. I'm not convinced this is the best thing to spend our money on.

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[Peppermint]

Re: Go on then!

Name me a project that this lot have brought in to budget.

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[Heckler]

take note of history

we sit here with our comfortable lives while the majority of the rest of the world (3rd) scrabble for what we have got, they are jealous of us, they want what we have got, do you really think that we can sit back and take what we have got for granted?
all those illegal immigrants coming into this country are here for one reason only, they want what they see us having, if any dopey liberals think that by being nice to them we solve the problems of the world they are living on another planet, those immigrants have been held in check in their own countries by nasty, evil vicious secret police, government thugs etc, when they see unarmed police, hapless civil servants etc they laugh all the way to the bank, think about it, if you have been held in check by AK47 wielding thugs do you really think that our system of policing frightens them? last week they were looking down a barrel in fear of their lives, this week some job centre jobs worth is trying to control them?
in the wider scheme of things we are like rome in the dying days of the empire, if we dont take steps now to control the "mob" we will lose it along with all that we hold dear.
having said all that i wouldnt trust this lot to look after anything let alone bring in a project the size of 2 aircraft carriers
s


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[tcm]

Re: true but

i remeber maggieT announcing that polaris was out of date and needed replacing. I bet we cd've pretended that it worked. Or, we cd then admit it was very very dodgy, hence better not come too close.

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[Guest]

The age old quote of Harold Wilson ....

To be perfectly frank and honest ....... I'm about to tell a lie !!!



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

Don\'t forget also

That Navy Design Borad only accept designs from Companies and Designers INVITED to the table and then those are vetted by an Admiralty Team ......

Witness the Hovercraft scandal ..... everyone else uses it except us !! And the Wide bodied ship ..... Swedes etc. were very happy to get the design sheets from 3 english guys left looking stupid by the admiralty ......

So forget any notion that sensible design and economics will enter into this ...... Admiralty will see to that..........

Then add TB .................. yep good for ...............?????????


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

If we get some big b------y carriers again as we used to have !!!! then maybe we can sit outside a US port instead of skulking away at the tugboat wharf .... where our size fits better !!!!!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[StugeronSteve]

Re: take note of history

Not sure the carriers will do a lot to solve the refugee problem, unless they're going to use them to clobber ferries. In which case it won't work cause the ferries seem to come off best from what I can remember.

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[Mirelle]

This is absolutely true, if incredible

In the early 90's I was negotiating an order for a bulk carrier with Harland and Wolff. Sir John Parker, who was then Chairman, told us about their previous order, which happened to be the RFA Fort Victoria.

These ships were stunningly expensive because someone had the bright idea of making these RFAs carry a full defensive armament - so they had to combine the requirements for a merchant ship, and a tanker to boot, with those of a frigate 0 missile launchers right over fuel oil tanks, and so on...

Daft, if you ask me, but that is not the punch line...

H&W were handed a truckload of drawings and told to quote. One of the compartments was absolutely blank - a sheet of white paper. "What should go here?" asked the shipyard. "Can't tell you that, it's Secret" said the Navy contingent. "How do we price it, then?" asked the yard people. "Just guess," said the Navy!

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[Mirelle]

I differ. Quite strongly in fact.

My wife, of quite a few years now, comes from one of those countries. She is full of respect for British institutions, including unarmed policemen (it took her years to walk up to, or even past, a policeman without trembling) and she is probably a good deal more law abiding than I am.

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