AH800 Tillerpilot - Which motor goes in it? Additional information about it?

[DangerousPirate]

Hello, I am on another project on my boat and the autopilot at the back was on today. After taking it apart and drying the inside, it turns out it starts and does something, but the motor inside it seems buggered. I sprayed it full of WD40, thinking this might fix it but not sure. Does anyone know what motor fits inside there? I can't find any information at all about this.

Also does anyone know how old these tillerpilots are and what size boat they are made for?

 

[Refueler]

The AH800 is supposed to be up to 8m boat ... AH1000 up to 10m and so on.

The 800 is the smallest of the Autohelm series but is more than capable of steering Centaurs and the like. I have both 800 and 1000 .... the last of the Nautech models before they changed to the Raymarine ST series.
Having had both 800 and 1000 apart - I could not actually see any difference in the motors - both being similar brushed motors. I have always thought that it should not be hard to find a brushed motor to suit - as they are made in standard sizes ... the only item remaining is to then find way to fit the pinion gear to the shaft ..

I will try and have a look in one and give you any info I can deduce .... please bear with me ... both are on the boat ...

I assume it is same as this >>>

not the older version with Compass dial on top ?

 

[Refueler]

OK .. I have a spare AH1000 and I opened it ... as I say I am quite sure that the motors are same 800 - 1000, its the gearing that may be different to get the thrust increase on the 1000.

Using the RS-545SH label .... leads to this :

RS-545SH Motors Datasheet pdf - Cabron-brush Motors. Equivalent, Catalog

I can say this - I ended up buying a spares or repair AH1000 to keep my 800 and 1000 TP's going ... as Raymarine were not interested ... spares were like 'Rocking horse sh**' to find ... which is a shame as the units work well.
Only pity is that being a 'Pulse' control unit - direct connection to Plotter is not possible. I do have a Z081 interface - but could never get it to work ... now its lost somewhere in all the 'junk' ...

 

[Refueler]

OK ... managed to find the AH800 motor ID ... and as suspected - its based on same motor as the 1000 .... but designated RS-545

Brushed motors are pretty basic and as long as you get can diameter / length and shaft diameter correct ... as well as the 12V - it should work. I would suspect the motor is based on the standard 12v 540 size used in model boats / cars of yesteryear !! It was the basis of so many items ....

 

[ProDave]

I have an AH800 the later one with the fluxgate compass (but there are at least 2 versions of the later models)

Mine is dead, I think the processor on the PCB is dead, but the mechanics on mine are fine so make me an offer and you can probably make 1 good one out of the two.

 

[Refueler]

As far as I'm aware ... the push-button Autohelm version a single version and only when Raymarine took them over did it have a second version - but actually same machine. This was for a very short time until the ST series replaced it.

Anyway .. doesn't matter as the motor is a 545 and replaceable.

 

[lauriel]

Similar motors are used in heavy duty ink jet printers. Hope this helps your search. The prices are so reasonable, around $15.00, it could be worth checking.

 

[Refueler]

Hello, I am on another project on my boat and the autopilot at the back was on today. After taking it apart and drying the inside, it turns out it starts and does something, but the motor inside it seems buggered. I sprayed it full of WD40, thinking this might fix it but not sure. Does anyone know what motor fits inside there? I can't find any information at all about this.

Also does anyone know how old these tillerpilots are and what size boat they are made for?

One of the worst things to do with a Brushed Motor is to dose it with WD40 ........ it may sound stupid - but two ways to clean up an electric motor ...... plain distilled water or contact cleaner. Both leave no residue, both do not dissolve or damage anything.
Has the 'arm' run to its limits ? Occasionally they hit the stops and jam - the ST series are famous for it.

The motors are pretty bullet proof ..... should last many years .... they either burn out or jam with corrosion.

https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-rs-545.html

But the offer from ProDave is best bet .....

 

[DangerousPirate]

Thanks all for the advice, I have gotten the motor to work again, although there seems to be a different issue now. It indeed did work for a minute or so, then I played around with the settings and wanted to center the rod so I can put it on the boat, except, well, the rod tried to overextent until the motor smoked and the motherboard smoked and I couldn't stop it anything thing? Now all the buttons beep, except the standby button, so I assume that one is fried.

As I took the autohelm off power right away when I saw smoke, I think I have saved the motor. If I connect it to a battery it does work now, it's just the panel that's fried now (I believe).

It is a newer version, the inside is fairly clean and barely any scratches. I also do not see any rust on it despite the AH was full of water when I took it apart, but no power - no problem. So the one without the compass dial on top, although I do think mine looks a little different as my buttons are on the top and not of the bottom, meaning at the end with the rod not the and with the cable? Weird, that it looks slightly different. I will find or take a picture later, I am on the laptop right now.

The motor WAS the problem, but I don't understand why the autohelm tried to extend so far out? I mean, okay fair I pressed the buttons quite often to see if it works in various orders until it finally did but shouldn't it realise "Hey, it doesn't go further, let's stop"?

Then some time later of trying to fix this it just beeped loudly as soon as you put power on, and the next day, yesterday, it was just gone? I do not understand why the problems come and go either, no one can fix something with ever-changing problems. *shrug*

One of the worst things to do with a Brushed Motor is to dose it with WD40 ........ it may sound stupid - but two ways to clean up an electric motor ...... plain distilled water or contact cleaner. Both leave no residue, both do not dissolve or damage anything.
Has the 'arm' run to its limits ? Occasionally they hit the stops and jam - the ST series are famous for it.

The motors are pretty bullet proof ..... should last many years .... they either burn out or jam with corrosion.

https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-rs-545.html

But the offer from ProDave is best bet .....

The WD40 actually did the trick, but yes, later on the arm overextended and kept pushing still until it started to smoke, as described earlier.

@ProDave thank you for the offer, but I think we are both at the same stage now, as unbeknownst to you, I repaired the motor with WD40 and some good ole waiting, and now my processor is acting up, too. I tell you what, I will contact Raymarine and hope they can repair it for a reasonable price as I think it's just a quick solder job SOMEHWERE (but I don't know what or where exactly). If they don't I will contact you in a few days time, so don't be surprised if you find a PM from a dangerous pirate....

@Refueler Thank you for all the pictures, I had a good, a very good, look at my motor but I couldn't identify any part number.

 

[Refueler]

The motor drive controller relies on a failsafe to cut out. It can be of two types - not really sure what AH uses - but I suspect its overcurrent detection on the board.
With such - once motor reaches extreme - the current rises to try to keep going .. board reacts by switching off.

It may interest some - but electric motors have a characteristic that makes them extremely dangerous. A good illustration is that of a model airplane ... one with small wet fuel motor (ie Glow fuel) and equivalent sized Electric motor with same prop etc.

If an object is put into the prop while running - the wet fuel engine will do serious damage - but will stall and stop. The electric motor though will do same damage - but will keep building up amps trying to keep turning and do more damage as you withdraw item ... motor will continue running unless reached such amps that it burns out. Its one of the first safety lessons people learn when handling E-power models.

Now apply that to your AH ... the rod has wound itself to limit - cut-out is not working ... its either a part of board or motor that will burn out.

Another method - but because of the geared mechanism I do not think is used - where a physical stop is used and that switches of the power to motor. Such as used on 3D print beds ... non geared limited to 360deg or less rotation units.

I have a feeling you've burnt out one of the 'pots' .... my 800 did similar many years ago and my pal took a 'pot' from the Spare / Repair 1000 I got hold of to get it going again. many years later - still working good.
I believe its one of the most common failures after years of service.

 

[DangerousPirate]

The motor drive controller relies on a failsafe to cut out. It can be of two types - not really sure what AH uses - but I suspect its overcurrent detection on the board.
With such - once motor reaches extreme - the current rises to try to keep going .. board reacts by switching off.

It may interest some - but electric motors have a characteristic that makes them extremely dangerous. A good illustration is that of a model airplane ... one with small wet fuel motor (ie Glow fuel) and equivalent sized Electric motor with same prop etc.

If an object is put into the prop while running - the wet fuel engine will do serious damage - but will stall and stop. The electric motor though will do same damage - but will keep building up amps trying to keep turning and do more damage as you withdraw item ... motor will continue running unless reached such amps that it burns out. Its one of the first safety lessons people learn when handling E-power models.

Now apply that to your AH ... the rod has wound itself to limit - cut-out is not working ... its either a part of board or motor that will burn out.

Another method - but because of the geared mechanism I do not think is used - where a physical stop is used and that switches of the power to motor. Such as used on 3D print beds ... non geared limited to 360deg or less rotation units.

I have a feeling you've burnt out one of the 'pots' .... my 800 did similar many years ago and my pal took a 'pot' from the Spare / Repair 1000 I got hold of to get it going again. many years later - still working good.
I believe its one of the most common failures after years of service.

I am not sure to what extent it was used by the previous owner. It looks all fairly clean and new, but then again he cut the power cord ... Don't know what for.

What are those pots?

 

[Refueler]

Pots ?? Dunno ... I gave it all to my pal ... both units ... he gave it back couple days later saying he'd changed one of the 'pots' .... now I have no idea if translation is at fault as he's Latvian ... and I have no idea which component was changed on the board.

 

[DangerousPirate]

Pots ?? Dunno ... I gave it all to my pal ... both units ... he gave it back couple days later saying he'd changed one of the 'pots' .... now I have no idea if translation is at fault as he's Latvian ... and I have no idea which component was changed on the board.

Hm, probably a diode or something like that. But cheers.

 

[andsarkit]

Pot usually refers to a potentiometer or variable resistor. There may be one on the board for setting up during manufacture.
About 10mm square with a screwdriver slot for adjustment.

If there was smoke you may be able to identify the burnt looking component. The next problem is to read the identity or value as this may be unreadable if it is blackened.
There is a spare board here for a not inconsiderable cost. PCB
This could be the 'pot'

Other people have had to replace the power transistors Repair

 

[ProDave]

When mine failed, the symptoms were upon applying power it drove the actuator fully out and stalled. At the bottom right of the PCB in that picture are 4 transistors forming a standard H bridge that drives the motor either way. 2 of those were short circuit so I replaced them. Now, applying power the motor does not drive but the sounder, that should sound a beep when you press a button is beeping continuously. Probing around with an oscilloscope shows no logic activity on any of the pins of the big processor chip. I think my board is a basket case.

 

[GHA]

When mine failed, the symptoms were upon applying power it drove the actuator fully out and stalled. At the bottom right of the PCB in that picture are 4 transistors forming a standard H bridge that drives the motor either way. 2 of those were short circuit so I replaced them. Now, applying power the motor does not drive but the sounder, that should sound a beep when you press a button is beeping continuously. Probing around with an oscilloscope shows no logic activity on any of the pins of the big processor chip. I think my board is a basket case.

30 odd quid you could build your own controller , if you can find the bits in a global shortage of everything electronic, pypilot will run fine on a pi zero 1w which should be available on ebay. Most of the work is wiring.
pypilot - open source marine autopilot

 

[Refueler]

30 odd quid you could build your own controller , if you can find the bits in a global shortage of everything electronic, pypilot will run fine on a pi zero 1w which should be available on ebay. Most of the work is wiring.
pypilot - open source marine autopilot

Controller to replace whole tillerpilot - or the control board in the tillerpilot ?

I know that for years people tried to work round Autohelms proprietry pulse code system used in the AH series .... along came ST series and NMEA / Seatalk enabled put paid to the need.

If someone could make an interface that actually worked NMEA to AH Pulse - I would grab it ... and I think I am not only one who would. There must be still quite a few AH units out there still in use.

The Z081 was never any good ... I spent ages and immense effort trying to get it to work ...

 

[GHA]

Controller to replace whole tillerpilot - or the control board in the tillerpilot ?

Yes ?
2 wires onto the tillerpilot motor is all that's needed. Someone with much patience installed it inside

This is what's needed>

IBT_2 motor controller (with the heatsink)
arduido nano (just below heatsink)
raspberry pi zero 1 0r 2 W (on the right)
5v. (from usb hub as it was easy way to do it for testing)
MPU9255 9 doff gyro/compass accelerometer. Not in pic.

2 versions, tinypilot standalone or buil;t in to openplotter. Tinypilot creates hotspot for web page control or opencpn. Not sure android opencpn is working but PC opencpn activate a route & the autopilot will follow.
Will follow a route, gps course, apparent wind or true wind.

https://imgur.com/Vtj6mjr

Gains & setup available from opencpn .

Wiring is the time consuming bit, software works out of the box & from user reports very likely as good control for steering a boat as you'll get at our level. Author (who wrote many of opencpn plugins & rewrote a lot of opencpn code to speed it up) is working on machine learning & AI for learning as it goes.

 

[Refueler]

mmmm I like making things but that's a bit more than I would go for. I note also he's used an ST as donor for FET's ..... I'm pretty sure the older AH series are not same FET's etc.

But nice ....

 

[GHA]

mmmm I like making things but that's a bit more than I would go for. I note also he's used an ST as donor for FET's ..... I'm pretty sure the older AH series are not same FET's etc.

But nice ....

it's just a bit of wiring, and some bits off ebay. IBT_2 motor controller or drone ESC off ebay far easier than bothering with FETs. All so cheap a compete spare is only a few cups of airport coffee.