Aft cabin flybridge to sports cruiser

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Swaaby

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Having got bitten by the boating bug badly last year, and buying a boat that is too darn big to handle (45ft flybridge, near 5m beam and a prominent aft cabin), I am looking for a friendlier unicorn in the shape of the following:
A 40ft + sports cruiser
Spacious cockpit, no real need for a tender garage
Nice sized saloon
A good main cabin and decent guest cabin
Preferably shaft drives but willing to consider outdrives

Up to £80k’ish and not afraid of a work
The boat will be used for me to learn on, work from mid-week and of course a cracking place to stay some weekends!
To be kept in the Plymouth area

The delights of endless hunting have brought into focus the following candidates. What do you think?
-Sunseeker Portofino 400
-Tired Princess V40
-Sunseeker Mustique 42
-“Bargain’ Fairline Targa 40
-Cranchi Endurance 39
- Windy Bora 40
..and just for a moment of madness.. Sunseeker Camargue 55

Any advice would be gratefully received!
 
PaulRainbow said:
No connection to Burton Waters
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Very few have any connection to burton waters, it doesn’t have much connection itself to water you would want to go boating on.
Up the arse end of a muddy dike connected to the tidal Trent, and even that only leads down to the Humber estuary and the delights of Hull or Gt Grimsby.

It’s a very swish marina in the middle of an upmarket development in the least likely location
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Dellquay13 said:
Very few have any connection to burton waters, it doesn’t have much connection itself to water you would want to go boating on.
Up the arse end of a muddy dike connected to the tidal Trent, and even that only leads down to the Humber estuary and the delights of Hull or Gt Grimsby.

It’s a very swish marina in the middle of an upmarket development in the least likely location
View attachment 205692
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Yes, very strange place to build a marina but they are very nice people, I went up with a friend a couple of years ago to look at a Merry Fisher they had. Wound up buying a near identical boat nearer to home but for a while we had schemed out a little holiday bringing it round.
 
Dellquay13 said:
Very few have any connection to burton waters, it doesn’t have much connection itself to water you would want to go boating on.
Up the arse end of a muddy dike connected to the tidal Trent, and even that only leads down to the Humber estuary and the delights of Hull or Gt Grimsby.

It’s a very swish marina in the middle of an upmarket development in the least likely location
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But neither of those boats are in that location, one is in Ipswich and the other is in Rochester.
 
If the only reason you're thinking of changing is to get yourself something a little bit smaller to learn on, then that's an expensive and in my opinion, unnecessary, exercise. There's no reason why you can't be taught to handle a 45 foot twin shaft boat, it's materially identical to a 40 foot twin shaft drive boat, obviously there are differences for example in windage and mass, but fundamentally, the two are going to handle very similarly. The additional mass acts in your favour, the windage is not in your favour. If that is the case, I suggest you invest a tiny proportion of what the cost to change will be in own boat training, you'll find that a couple of days with a competent instructor on your own boat should give you the skills and confidence to take that boat wherever you want to.

On the other hand, if you've decided that a flybridge isn't for you then totally fair enough of course!
 
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Sticky Fingers said:
If the only reason you're thinking of changing is to get yourself something a little bit smaller to learn on, then that's an expensive and in my opinion, unnecessary, exercise. There's no reason why you can't be taught to handle a 45 foot twin shaft boat, it's materially identical to a 40 foot twin shaft drive boat, obviously there are differences for example in windage and mass, but fundamentally, the two are going to handle very similarly. The additional mass acts in your favour, the windage is not in your favour. If that is the case, I suggest you invest a tiny proportion of what the cost to change will be in own boat training, you'll find that a couple of days with a competent instructor on your own boat should give you the skills and confidence to take that boat whatever you want to.

On the other hand, if you've decided that a flybridge isn't for you then totally fair enough of course!
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Thanks for your thoughts. Yes I have decided to move to a Sports Cruiser and have turned that corner so to speak!
 
Sticky Fingers said:
If the only reason you're thinking of changing is to get yourself something a little bit smaller to learn on, then that's an expensive and in my opinion, unnecessary, exercise. There's no reason why you can't be taught to handle a 45 foot twin shaft boat, it's materially identical to a 40 foot twin shaft drive boat, obviously there are differences for example in windage and mass, but fundamentally, the two are going to handle very similarly. The additional mass acts in your favour, the windage is not in your favour. If that is the case, I suggest you invest a tiny proportion of what the cost to change will be in own boat training, you'll find that a couple of days with a competent instructor on your own boat should give you the skills and confidence to take that boat whatever you want to.

On the other hand, if you've decided that a flybridge isn't for you then totally fair enough of course!
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Agree with this, and then there is the cost to change. Brokerage fees on selling, probably won't get back what you paid for the boat. Survey fees on potential purchase (depending on results you may be paying to survey more than one boat), potential costs to move the new boat to Plymouth.
Does your boat have bow and stern thrusters? Makes a big difference when parking, which is when size and windage can be difficult. Sports cruisers can still be seriously affected by wind when mooring if you have the canvas covers up. I've got a 34ft sports cruiser and learnt very early on to take the covers off if there is any wind, even if raining. I've got a bow thruster which helps enormously. I've helmed my brothers 31ft sports cruiser , without a bow thruster, no doing that again! As we are based on The Thames we are constantly mooring, moor, waiting at the lock, get into the lock, which need practice (canvases down or the wind gets us and end up bouncing side to side of the lock) , repeat at next lock ~ 40 minutes. It took lots of practice
 
I moved from a 44' sports cruiser to a 48' flybridge, so the other way. Compared to the sports cruiser, the flybridge is materially easier to position and handle, and the additional weight gives it a much happier motion in the famously uncomfortable Solent chop. The flybridge gives us excellent visibility when manoeuvering, the view from up there is so much better than the view from inside the sports cruiser's inner helm. Also, we really like having the additional light and space at pontoon level where the saloon is, unlike the sports cruiser where the saloon was down below, and consequently felt dark and disconnected from the outside world.

So for us, the flybridge is the right answer, but I appreciate that everyone's requirements and likes/dislikes will vary, I just wanted to make the point that changing for training / learning sake was possibly not be best idea. But the OP has obviously decided that the sports cruiser is the way to go.

Shaft drive sports cruisers at about the 40 foot mark are relatively rare, I do know that Princess offered the original V40 with shafts, the Mustique 42 linked above by Paul Rainbow is on shafts, and some other older Sunseekers may also be available as shaft drive options. But stern drives are very common at this size, so if shaft drive is a requirement, the number of models available will obviously be somewhat limited.

The Mustique would get my vote out of those two that Paul linked. Looks like a lot of boat for the money!
 
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Neil1300r said:
Agree with this, and then there is the cost to change. Brokerage fees on selling, probably won't get back what you paid for the boat. Survey fees on potential purchase (depending on results you may be paying to survey more than one boat), potential costs to move the new boat to Plymouth.
Does your boat have bow and stern thrusters? Makes a big difference when parking, which is when size and windage can be difficult. Sports cruisers can still be seriously affected by wind when mooring if you have the canvas covers up. I've got a 34ft sports cruiser and learnt very early on to take the covers off if there is any wind, even if raining. I've got a bow thruster which helps enormously. I've helmed my brothers 31ft sports cruiser , without a bow thruster, no doing that again! As we are based on The Thames we are constantly mooring, moor, waiting at the lock, get into the lock, which need practice (canvases down or the wind gets us and end up bouncing side to side of the lock) , repeat at next lock ~ 40 minutes. It took lots of practice
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Hi Neil, she has a bow thruster and would ideally need a stern thruster to help with her rather ample behind! The real problem is asking the wife to career around the side decks in charge of the lines and the route is a little tricky! I have got to the stage when the “I just want to change” boating logic has come to roost!
 
Sticky Fingers said:
I moved from a 44' sports cruiser to a 48' flybridge, so the other way. Compared to the sports cruiser, the flybridge is materially easier to position and handle, and the additional weight gives it a much happier motion in the famously uncomfortable Solent chop. The flybridge gives us excellent visibility when manoeuvering, the view from up there is so much better than the view from inside the sports cruiser's inner helm. Also, we really like having the additional light and space at pontoon level where the saloon is, unlike the sports cruiser where the saloon was down below, and consequently felt dark and disconnected from the outside world.

So for us, the flybridge is the right answer, but I appreciate that everyone's requirements and likes/dislikes will vary, I just wanted to make the point that changing for training / learning sake was possibly not be best idea. But the OP has obviously decided that the sports cruiser is the way to go.

Shaft drive sports cruisers at about the 40 foot mark are relatively rare, I do know that Princess offered the original V40 with shafts, the Mustique 42 linked above by Paul Rainbow is on shafts, and some other older Sunseekers may also be available as shaft drive options. But stern drives are very common at this size, so if shaft drive is a requirement, the number of models available will obviously be somewhat limited.

The Mustique would get my vote out of those two that Paul linked. Looks like a lot of boat for the money!
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Thanks for your thoughts. What sports cruiser did you have and what flybridge did you change to?
 
Swaaby said:
Thanks for your thoughts. What sports cruiser did you have and what flybridge did you change to?
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Had a Bavaria S40 hardtop, bought new, my second new boat, she had D4/300s on stern drives. Sold in 2023, few months of cold turkey then in 2024 we came to our senses and decided we needed another Boat. So whilst idly browsing the brokers’ websites, an advert for a 1999 Princess 460 came to my attention, we went to have a look, and put in an offer. Reason I mention the age of the boats, is that in my view, don’t get hung up on how old or how new something is. If it’s right for you, the age of it is pretty irrelevant. It’s all about the condition and the history, especially if like me, you’re not really into refurbishment or major project work.
 
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