Aft cabin boats

[Guest]

I am quite tempted by an aft cabin boat - Fairline Turbo, Princess 435, Broom, Birchwood 39 in its various guises, even maybe a Halmatic type semi displacement. As the forum knows, I have sold my boat of some years and am looking.

I have only ever had aft cockpit boats but like the increased accommodation an aft cabin gives. I appreciate however there are drawbacks including

a) no sheltered aft cockpit to down one's whisky and dry in.
b) no lazarette in which to accumulate the usual several tons of assorted boating brick a brack
c) high topsides for boarding
d) davits can be a problem
e) space in engine room, especially if genny fitted

Any other downsides? Do any of you chaps have experience of both to pass onto me as a virgin aft cabiner?

Nick

 

[stuartw]

Nick, if you remember I have a TS37, which I really like. I spent some 3 months, 2 years ago, going round the south coast looking at all model types. I came to the conclusion despite some of the reservations you have, for sheer comfort, you cannot beat the aft cabin.
One of my biggest complaints in an aft cockpit boat, is that the flybridge is so isolated from the cocpit. Even in some of the more modern versions, there are still quite a few steps. Certainly with the aft cabin, the aft deck is so wide, even with spray dodger lockers like on mine, it is a roomy area for meeting, eating & drinking.
I have seen versions with covers, so it is possible to keep dry.

I manage to cram quite a lot into my deck lockers, but I must admit, it does make you a bit tidier, and limit what you keep without some cavernous lazarette.

As regards boarding, I have never found it a problem. I have a hook-on ladder, which all but the very elderly can manage.
Fortunately the pontoons at my marina are quite high, so the first step is easy.
Davits not a problem. I have a pair of enormous ones attached by angled stainless steel boxes to the aft cabin/transom wall.

As regards room in the power house area, that will depend on the size of boat and engines. I have 2 x 306's, and can crawl between them, and just about get to both outer sides- a bit of a struggle though. Genenerator is in front of the engines attached to the dinette/galley bulhead- bags of room there for servicing.

The biggest asset with an aft cabin boat, is not only a superb cabin, but usually, en-suite heads as well- a real boone.

It is difficult to give negative points without living on board an aft cockpit type, but I don't think I'd swap.
Good luck on you search
Stuart

 

[Guest]

Hmm, you're in scottie land so the link between out and in is important. Nice thing abt flyb are the walk-in saloon, but a fall-down from the fly. Comand bridge is a clamber-down saloon, and things like broom and say frexample 43AC ( iknow u won't buy one of these but anyway) are slightly rubbish outside areas, and not *that* fab on the inside. The Aquastars are similar styles are nice to sit in drive from with proper windows and views, and commandy outside. But my fave for uk boating is the botnia targa, with decent engines, unfortunately fairly new so no cheap ones. 30-40 knots, nice salonny bits, walk around deck, command outside driving position. They're a bit ugly so why am I so keen? Last boat show I had a good look round one, and thought I'd better check the beds to see if they're big enuf, so nobody abt had a quick lie down. Mm nice and comfy, in fact v nice after tramping round SBS. I was just about to get up and go up top when this gorgeous blonde zoomed down the stairs and started taking her clothes off. Turns out she was one of the staff, changing into work clothes. But you have to admit, these boats have got the lot!

 

[paulineb]

You will have to go downstairs to replenish your whiskey & dry and then climb the stairs again to drink it on your unsheltered deck - (unless you have a wifey to do that sort of thing for you like most skippers)

Pauline B

 

[Guest]

Don't all these boats have outdrives? Or maybe the bigger ones are on shafts? Anyway if they are outdrives, they're all yours as I would not have them.

Anyway, I thought you were a sportsboat maniac? Don't they also suffer from the steps down to the saloon problem?

As for bursting in on woman in her lacy's

a) Thats typical of IT people - always into software
b) At vour age you should stick to looking at boats

Nick

 

[hlb]

Think it depends on the size of the party Nick.
Usually it's just me and the wife so my 35 is great and just the
right size for handleing by two.
On the other hand if we get visitors like son girlfriend, it can get a bit over friendly!!
You have to laugh at the " Sleeps 7" blerb in the ad's
Depends whether you need or want to cart about all that extra
boat and weight for your needs.

Haydn

 

[Guest]

Usually its me and the boss solo but quite often there are four of us (two couples) and I like the privacy of being at opposite ends of the boat. Also mid cabins tend to be a bit cramped - sleeping in some is like rehearsing for your coffin! +plus don't sit up or you'll get a sore head (although I have that some mornings anyway)

Nick

 

[stewart]

Re: Aft cabin boats - fundamental problem

Surely the main issue to consider is whether you really want to cruise around in something with the looks of a floating caravan? I could be wrong, but I've not yet seen any aft cabin boat that looks anything like as nice as a good flybridge (and there are plenty of bad ones of those too). I'm an open boat person myself but I can see the need for a bit more inside in Scotland, but aft cabin - surely not?

 

[Guest]

Re: Aft cabin boats - fundamental problem

Could be worse, he could be thinking of a Carver "Floating Towerblock"...

 

[Guest]

ooh nick, you're getting all grumpy with lack of boat.

I am most dreadful sorry about suggesting outdrive Targa boat. The aquastar jobs i think are shaft drive. Anyway wot happened to the business venture for which the dear dear sadly departed Amoureuse weep (bursts into tears) was sold?

I am sportsboaty, but wd not be for scotland. You need nice sitty indoors breakfast ooh look at him/that facility without standing up. Oyster (sailboats, don't get mad again it's only an example) sell pilothouse boats and pilotdeck (or summink) boats, one of which is sitty down and look out the side windys , other is stand up. Aquastar style is v good at this, excellent party boat in naff/dodgy weather, plu (I fink) outdoor command bridge for the ten minute summer. And walky around deck.

Are they fast enuf tho? I saw a nelson style boat thrashing along loads faster than a plany boat, so a relible 15-20 knots in more weathers and goodbye to zips and poppers might be ok?

As for the laceys
10) She burst in on me, not t'other way round and
20) I am not quite that ancient. But I am the wrong side of 25. Well um alright I'm also the wrong
side of 40 something but ahem it sounds better hehe. And
30) why do we putery people always write in note form?

 

[jfm]

Sealine maybe, subject to nookie issues

Aft cockpit much better than a high aft deck, no question imho. Aft cabin is fantastic inside. So how about the Sealines that have both? F43 and T46 if I recall? Although I dont really like Sealine styling (T46 is moving in right direction) this have-cake-and-eat-it layout is jolly clever provided you dont need much headroom over the aft bed (all nookie must be lying down, for example)

Oh yes, if you want to road test a F43 wiv Volvo 370s and see the layout go to Cameron House for cake and tea and go for trip round Loch Lomond on theirs. Just up the road from you?

JFM

 

[stewart]

Re: Aft cabin boats - fundamental problem

True, but surely no one with taste actually buys American boats! Nice Caddilac rather than bmw/merc/jag etc anyone?

 

[longjohnsilver]

No wonder hubby gets upset when you not only make his whisky and dry but also drink it for him - I presume that's what you meant - and all this when he's bringing you safely home across the channel!!!

 

[Guest]

I was'nt getting mad, I was merely giving you a deep insight into life, women, boats and lacy bits - freely given advice (unusual for me!) from the heart which is located just behind the zipper.

I've had more good weather up here than the Solent but maybe not the Med where all the rich kids hang out. The business purpose for which Amoureuse was sold has started to produce to the extent that I did not really need the extra funds but maybe it was the appropriate catalyst to make me sell anyway before I got into HLBesque repairs.

Anyway how's the sea tiger feline?

Nick

 

[longjohnsilver]

So this new business venture didn't actually require the sale of the late much lamented amereuse. I would suggest that this was purely an excuse to start looking at other boats. I also seem to recall long posts about proper planning etc etc. Do you take your own advice?

Why not contact Byron to ask about his shaky Princess 435, sounds like it could be going cheap!

Why not buy one of those gorgeous looking Carvers, no problem with space, always come with ice makers for your whisky, high topsides can be used as a sail in windy weather, any amount of storage space, davits are no problem and plenty of space in the engineroom ( do they come with engines?). Also you will not be tempted to sell again as no one will want to buy it from you.

As a virgin I suggest that maybe you buy a speed boat to pull the birds, or would this freeze your proverbials due to the cold scottish climate?

PS Go for a proper boat, an Aquastar, Seaward Nelson or some other good semi displacement boat. The other advantage is that very few of them come with Volvos. Also if you have an aft cabin wouldn't this make checking your stern glands a problem?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Nick, we're fans of aft cabin boats having owned Turbo 36, Princess 435, Sealine 410 and now a Broom 37 so I feel qualified to comment

Pro's

1. Stating the obvious, the master cabin is much larger than any aft cockpit boat of the same size and has far more clothes storage (if you have a wife who brings her entire wardrobe for a weekend you will appreciate this)
2. The master cabin is separated from the other cabins for greater privacy (again if you have kids or regular guests you will appreciate this)
3. The aft toilet/shower compartments are usually much larger and often separated
4. Aft cabin boats usually have a dinette as well as a saloon which means the mess of feeding kids can be kept out of the saloon
5. Access from the aft deck to flybridge is much easier, usually easy steps and no precarious ladder
6. Contentious one this but aft cabin boats are often known for being very seaworthy; the models I've owned all have a good reputation in this respect. Some people reckon the extra buoyancy afforded by the aft cabin accounts for this

Con's

1. For us, the major disadvantage of an aft cabin boat is the windswept and unsociable aft deck; you can fit a canopy but this is ugly and increases the windage. The 410 and later Brooms have much better aft decks
2. Deck storage can be a problem and you really have to be ruthless about what you store on the boat
3. Obviously, a generator cant be fitted in a lazarette so its normally fitted forward of the engines or under seating or a berth. This means the gennie cant be large (probably 4KVa max) and its intrusively noisy
4. Access to the bathing platform can be very precarious, a problem if, like us, you have a dog (except Sealine which is well designed)
5. Stairs from the aft deck to the saloon are often very steep
6. Engine access particularly to gearboxes and sternglands can be a major problem (with honourable exception of Broom)

Some aft cabin boats are better designed than others. For example, the Sealine 410/450 have very well designed cockpits and moving about these boats is easy. Brooms have a well protected upper helm and aft deck all on the same level which is very sociable and they really make an effort to ensure engine access is adequate
Aquastars/Nelsons have been suggested. No question these are fine sea boats but the hulls are narrow so the accomodation is pinched and the aft deck design is often an afterthought
Re. your other points, davits are'nt a problem - you just have to wind them up and down more. Boarding is no better or worse than an aft cockpit boat - the height of the deck midships is about the same
If I had my boat in the Med, no way would I have an aft cabin boat but for the more variable weather in the UK (yes, I know Scotland apparently has its own more benign micro climate) , we find we spend more time inside the boat than outside so the accomodation of an aft cabin boat outweighs the disadvantages for us but you pays your money etc........

 

[Guest]

Thanks for that. Just a couple of points

a) The genny on Amoureuse was in a soundproof (ha ha!) box and mounted in the lazarette just aft of the bulkhead between engine room. That was not really a bulkhead in the conventional marine sense as it was not waterproof - partition is maybe a better word so loads of holes (including a crawl hole for access to engine room) for pipes and noise to pass through. This meant that the forward end of the genny was under the saloon but it was not desperately intrusive - maybe the fact that the exhaust was via the transom helped. The point is, is noise so bad as to make the thing only suitable for brief runs of the microwave, etc.?

b) Davits - I have seen one or two American boats (notably Carvers) with problems with davits i.e. causing the whole structure to "give" and ultimately they required quite extensive strengthening to prevent the aft cabin getting a sun roof. To be fair I have not seen that on British boats. However, I like to have a rib with a decent outboard (maybe 10-15hp). This means the outboard is permanent slung on dinghy which lives on the davits - could that be an issue?

Nick

PS I rather like Brooms but the combination of required size and age tends to put them out of the price bracket I was looking at. Maybe, however, that also means you have a better chance of getting your money back out of them when you sell.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Nick, to answer your points

1. Of the 4 aft cabin boats I've owned, all of which have had gennies, 3 have had them located forward of the engines right under the saloon. On my latest boat, the Broom, the gennie was only fitted last year and I have to presume the soundproofing is state of the art; even so, the constant drone is enough to irritate. In my earlier boats, the gennie noise was so bad as to make normal conversation difficult. I did own a Sealine 410 which had the gennie located under the aft cabin berth and this was much better except of course you could'nt sleep with the gennie on
2. US boats are mainly not designed for davits and therefore simply bolting them on the transom without reinforcement wont do. UK boats are generally designed for davits except I have heard that the Turbo 36 can have problems unless extended davit mounting plates are fitted. I carried an Avon 3.40 RIB + 15hp motor on the back of a Princess 435 for 3 years without problem although one of the davits themselves did break once. Personally I think this is too much to carry anyway on any boat. Of the boats I've had, the Sealine had the best davit mounting with a nice flat ledge on the transom
3. Re resale, personally I'd stick with a UK boat and avoid US or Taiwanese (even Traders). Turbo 36, P435, Birchwood TS37/39, any Broom all seem to hold their value reasonably well providing you dont pay over the odds in the first place. As a left field option, there are one or two Hatteras 40DC's around and this would probably be the only US aft cabin boat I'd look at because the quality is high and the hull is reputedly good