Advice re rudder bearings please- HELP

[dralex]

Does anybody have any experience in changing rudder bearings? I'm sure all boats are different, but i've just spoke to a yard about replacing the bearings on my Dehler 34 and it sounds like a huge job involving breaking out the old lower bearing and then glassing new one into the hull. I thought it would be just a case of changing the bushes.
Is there any way of just reducing the friction in the existing bearings when they load up?

Any advice gratefully received as this sounds potentially expensive to resolve.

 

[frilaens]

If you don't want to remove the old bearing you could try a fix with epoxy and graphite. I found several guides to doing this (try googling "west epoxy graphite rudder") which seem to be sensible, but I havn't tried yet. The idea is that you use a release wax on the shaft and then place the rudder stock back into the bearings with an epoxy-graphite mix. Once it's cured you break the seal with the rudder and you have a nice tight "new" bearing. Seems a simple and cheap way to refurbish a worn bearing.

 

[Robin]

Alex

I don't know if the Dehler set up is like this one on a Jeanneau, but it fits with what the yard told you. A number of boats were fitted with this type of bearing, including Dufour Classics, they are very good when new but a pig to replace it seems. Fortunately only a few Jeanneaus (and not ours!) had this kind of bearing, I must say I prefer the old fashioned ones.

http://jeanneau.tripod.com/id247.htm

I hope the yard are just sucking teeth like they do and you really have the normal simple arrangement, good luck.

Robin

 

[dralex]

That sounds like an interesing fix that seems logical. I may think that one over. The pictures you show Robin, look familiar- looks like I'm in for some fun.

 

[Ships_Cat]

The grahite and epoxy fix will not work as my understanding is you have self aligning bearings on the Dehler - according to the Dehler site they use JP3 self aligning bearings - ie the housing is glassed in. I guess one could do something along the epoxy lines after removing the housing but it would be a real botch up of the type I could not comprehend being done.

As far as I know the various JP3 bearings (I don't know which one is used) can be disassembled to get at and check the internal components as long as the removable end of the bearing is exposed and not buried in glass. But I suspect there will be no chance of getting at the lower one at least, it probably being fully glassed in with the removable end of the bearing upwards. Therefore the knock it out advice, but a simple inspection would confirm that.

Given their importance I think I would treat it as a replacement job rather than a botch up of some type - assuming that it is proven the fault is in the bearings and not in the steering pedestal, etc.

Like Robin, I prefer the simple bush type bearings.

John

 

[ShipsWoofy]

What is that pin for in photo's 2 & 4 ?

 

[Ships_Cat]

I think to stop stuff like weed, etc going between the top of the rudder and bottom of the boat and wrapping around the shaft but stand to be corrected (we don't have one and don't seem to have missed having one).

John

 

[Robin]

[ QUOTE ]
What is that pin for in photo's 2 & 4 ?

[/ QUOTE ]

A small skeg to aid directional stabilty downwind? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Like John I think it is a rope/weed deflector to keep things from jamming between rudder blade and hull.

 

[rudolph_hart]

I have replaced the rudder bearings on both of the Dehler 34s that we've owned. The bearings do vary according to the year of build (mine were 1986 & 1990), but they often seem to suffer from water absorbtion, causing them to sieze up. It's not too difficult to change them, and certainly not expensive to have new ones made to fit.

PM me details of your boat & I'll send you some info on how I did mine.

 

[dralex]

Brilliant- mine is a 1990 Nova Top. I've pm'd you.

Cheers

Alex

 

[ShipsWoofy]

That little pin

Interesting, but I can't see it personally. If you look at the photo below you will possibly see a couple of things.

The gap between the pin and rudder, even if it pushes a rope downward, it will immediately pop back up with prop wash or if attached to the bottom, as it hits the rudder the boat will be pulled down, and the rope will still go into the bearing / shaft assembly.

Also, it is in an oblong hole, making it look adjustable or at least movable, why? If it was for the purposes you have mentioned it would be far simpler to bolt a pin externally (if you see what I mean) like a P bracket only smaller. Or even have a rubber boot attached to the rudder itself?

Unless it is in fact a blade that is silly sharp and will actually cut some floating debris, but it could not stay sharp very long as it would be blunted by the water crossing it?

I am only asking as I am interested, it caught my eye and now I have to know what it is for. Maybe it really does deflect weed, I would like to hear from anyone who actually knows for definite, sorry to be a Gludy /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If it is what you say I will accept it, it is just I can't see how it works.... Sometimes I wish I didn't care about these things /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[tome]

Re: That little pin

I shared your curiosity. It looks more like some type of sensor to me.

Wondered if the leading edge of the rudder has a small magnet and the blade contains a hall-effect sensor to detect midship and small rudder angles for an autopilot? Probably not, I've never seen anything quite like it before.

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: That little pin

Like you Woofy one I have my doubts that it would be of any value but I think that is what its anticipated purpose is. To me it looks like a little skeg on a plate screwed to the bottom of the boat and is not adjustable.

While still proclaiming my doubts as to its worth, one of the photos shows it and the rudder side on and it would look as if a piece of weed, for example, running down the little skeg would hit the rudders forward face where that face is swept back. I don't see that actually happening with any reliability but I think that was the intention.

While we have picked up great clumps of weed on our spade rudder (making it heavy to steer and loss of some directional control until it clears itself, which it seems to do) I have never found any between the top of the rudder and the bottom of the boat wrapped around the shaft.

Like Tom I have not seen one like that before and wonder if it is an original fitting from the builder or else someone's later imaginative addition.

It is all Robin's fault, he probably put the link up knowing that our eagle eyes would all spot it and spend our days trying to work it out while he is off playing golf /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John

 

[Robin]

Re: That little pin

[ QUOTE ]
It is all Robin's fault, he probably put the link up knowing that our eagle eyes would all spot it and spend our days trying to work it out while he is off playing golf .

[/ QUOTE ]

I heard that John!

I wasn't out playing golf, I sneaked out to put a 2nd coat of antifoul on because last Sunday was so windy the roller stuck (really) to the hull and we had to stop! We need to be ready for lift in next week - summer is coming up here on top of the world...

I'm sure that is the pupose of the pin. We have a half skeg on our rudder so a gizmo like that wouldn't work, our last boat was the same and we DID get a pot line between the rudder and the skeg, at night F7, hard on the wind. Fortunately the pot line broke although the wheel steering chain jumped a couple of teeth on the sprocket in the pedestal, and when we got in harbour next morning there was a length of the line complete with little plastic float still there between rudder and skeg!

Now, where did I put the sun tan oil, summer is coming..

Robin

 

[Swagman]

Re: That little pin

Could it be a blade added by some previous owner who sailed requently in weed enfested waters?

Whilst it looks a tad small for any resonable kelp I have seen bigger versions looking exactly the same in Oz - and they do need sharpening every year to be effective.

When blunt they tend to snag the weed and create a bigger 'weed collection' problem.