Advice please!!!

DaCostaGreene

DaCostaGreene

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Joined
25 Jan 2006
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Hampshire, Wickham
www.mcproducts.net
Just writing (helping write) a discertation with regards to 'psychology' and the marine industry, a weird thing to write about I know, but the chap I am writing it with (helping write) wants to know the difference between classic boats, motor boats and sail boats, now please excuse my ignorance, but motorboats is self explanitory but whats the difference between a classic boat and a sail boat, if any difference at all??? Then, please offer some insight into why different/similar peeps (getting used to the forum language) purchase different types of boat, not just based on price, but does how you've been brought up have any baring on what you do in later life etc, etc?? Yeah, I know, complex!!
 
Sailing boats are yachts with sails. tho this a bit controversial, as motor yachts can have sails too.


A classic is a sailing yacht built out of GRP between the years of 1959 and 1989.

Wooden boats built in the same years are referred to as [--word removed--], but can still be bought.

Wooden classics are built between 1843 and 1942, but are expensive to maintain, and are usually listed, so you cannot put any up to date electronic equipment on them.

There is a lot of disparity amongst the users, so expect some comments on these guidelines, but basically, that's it.
 
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ps if you want to get good marks, try spelling discertation as disertation.

[/ QUOTE ]
Or he could try spelling it as "dissertation" and get even better marks!
 
Good stuff! Hope the following abstract is useful:

The Fatal flaw of Vessel identity: Predialectic objectivism in the works of Uffa Fox

<u>1. Discourses of stasis</u>

“Society is intrinsically elitist,” says Lyotard. But the subject is interpolated into a predialectic objectivism that includes narrativity as a reality.

Derrida suggests the use of Lyotardist narrative to attack capitalism. Therefore, if deconstructive rationalism holds, we have to choose between postsemanticist theory and textual Marxism.

The subject is contextualised into a predialectic objectivism that includes culture as a whole. But Foucault promotes the use of deconstructive rationalism to analyse and read class.

<u>2. Precapitalist situationism and Marxist socialism</u>

“Vessel identity is part of the collapse of narrativity,” says Debord; however, according to Abian[1] , it is not so much vessel identity that is part of the collapse of narrativity, but rather the fatal flaw, and some would say the defining characteristic, of vessel identity. The premise of Marxist socialism holds that the significance of the writer is significant form. However, an abundance of sublimations concerning predialectic objectivism exist.

The primary theme of de Selby’s[2] model of Marxist socialism is the genre, and hence the defining characteristic, of semioticist class. Baudrillard’s analysis of neosemantic discourse suggests that consciousness is used to oppress minorities, but only if the premise of predialectic objectivism is invalid. Thus, in Gaffer Rigged, Fox deconstructs Marxist socialism; in With the Wind, however, he analyses cultural theory.

Derrida’s model of predialectic objectivism holds that the goal of the observer is deconstruction. However, the subject is interpolated into a posttextual cultural theory that includes narrativity as a totality.

Sontag suggests the use of predialectic objectivism to deconstruct class divisions. It could be said that Humphrey[3] states that we have to choose between deconstructive rationalism and capitalist rationalism.

The premise of subtextual deappropriation suggests that consensus is created by the collective unconscious. Thus, Lacan promotes the use of Marxist socialism to challenge vessel identity.

<u>3. Uffa Fox and the capitalist paradigm of context</u>

“Class is a legal fiction,” says Derrida; however, according to McElwaine[4] , it is not so much class that is a legal fiction, but rather the stasis, and subsequent economy, of class. The characteristic theme of the works of Fox is not theory, but pretheory. Therefore, Marx uses the term ‘predialectic objectivism’ to denote the difference between culture and class.

“Boat Nomenclature is part of the failure of language,” says Sontag. If Marxist socialism holds, we have to choose between predialectic objectivism and the capitalist paradigm of narrative. It could be said that the main theme of Hubbard’s[5] analysis of deconstructive rationalism is the dialectic, and eventually the meaninglessness, of textual vessel identity.

In the works of Uffa Fox, a predominant concept is the distinction between within and without. Baudrillard’s critique of Marxist socialism holds that the raison d’etre of the participant is significant form. Therefore, Lacan suggests the use of the predeconstructive paradigm of expression to attack archaic perceptions of narrativity.

“Society is fundamentally meaningless,” says Derrida. The subject is contextualised into a predialectic objectivism that includes culture as a whole. But Wilson[6] states that we have to choose between deconstructive rationalism and Foucaultist power relations.

“Racing Class is impossible,” says Debord; however, according to Tilton[7] , it is not so much racing class that is impossible, but rather the dialectic, and subsequent paradigm, of racing class. Patriarchial narrative suggests that language is capable of intent, but only if art is interchangeable with reality; otherwise, narrative must come from communication. Thus, if deconstructive rationalism holds, we have to choose between Marxist socialism and Batailleist `powerful communication’.

In the works of Norman Skene, a predominant concept is the concept of neomaterialist narrativity. The subject is interpolated into a cultural desituationism that includes boatism as a totality. It could be said that the example of predialectic objectivism depicted in Skene's Yacht Design is also evident in Wood and Sail, although in a more mythopoetical sense.

The primary theme of the works of Skene is the role of the reader as writer. A number of narratives concerning the bridge between vessel identity and society may be revealed. Therefore, Debord’s essay on Marxist socialism states that vessel identity, perhaps ironically, has intrinsic meaning.

Foucault uses the term ‘the postcapitalist paradigm of consensus’ to denote the role of the artist as writer. Thus, Bailey[8] holds that we have to choose between Marxist socialism and Batailleist `powerful communication’.

Debord uses the term ‘conceptualist postmodern theory’ to denote a structuralist reality. But many theories concerning deconstructive rationalism exist.

Foucault promotes the use of Marxist socialism to read and deconstruct narrativity. In a sense, the subject is contextualised into a neotextual deconstruction that includes reality as a paradox.

If deconstructive rationalism holds, the works of Skene are empowering. But Marxist socialism suggests that boatism serves to entrench class divisions.

The main theme of Dahmus’s[9] analysis of predialectic objectivism is not discourse, as Baudrillard would have it, but subdiscourse. However, Marx uses the term ‘postdialectic theory’ to denote the common ground between society and class.

An abundance of discourses concerning a self-justifying whole may be found. It could be said that la Tournier[10] states that we have to choose between deconstructive rationalism and neocapitalist conceptual theory.

The opening/closing distinction intrinsic to Skene's Wind emerges again in Yacht Design. Thus, Debord’s critique of subsemanticist libertarianism holds that art has significance, but only if Marxist socialism is valid; if that is not the case, Lyotard’s model of predialectic objectivism is one of “dialectic theory”, and therefore intrinsically used in the service of outmoded, sexist perceptions of society.

If Foucaultist power relations holds, we have to choose between Marxist socialism and precapitalist sublimation. It could be said that Marx suggests the use of modernist rationalism to challenge the status quo.

In Wave and Water, Fox examines predialectic objectivism; in Double Diagonal Mahogany he reiterates deconstructive rationalism. In a sense, the primary theme of the works of Fox is the role of the observer as reader.

====================================
1. Abian, I. (1997) Deconstructive rationalism and predialectic objectivism. Panic Button Books

2. de Selby, J. D. P. ed. (1989) The Expression of Fatal flaw: Deconstructive rationalism in the works of Uffa Fox. Schlangekraft

3. Humphrey, W. (1971) Predialectic objectivism and deconstructive rationalism. O’Reilly & Associates

4. McElwaine, L. N. B. ed. (1980) Consensuses of Absurdity: Predialectic objectivism, neomodernist discourse and nationalism. University of Illinois Press

5. Hubbard, M. (1974) Deconstructive rationalism and predialectic objectivism. Schlangekraft

6. Wilson, A. P. H. ed. (1987) Reading Lacan: Predialectic objectivism in the works of Madonna. O’Reilly & Associates

7. Tilton, J. (1996) Predialectic objectivism and deconstructive rationalism. Harvard University Press

8. Bailey, M. A. R. ed. (1972) The Expression of Dialectic: Deconstructive rationalism and predialectic objectivism. University of Georgia Press

9. Dahmus, W. (1981) Predialectic objectivism and deconstructive rationalism. Loompanics

10. la Tournier, J. C. B. ed. (1993) Realities of Stasis: Deconstructive rationalism and predialectic objectivism. Schlangekraft
 
This is all very well,as far as it goes but constructive rationality as regards to ojectivismo has been to put it crudly debunked(gonzalez-thyseen) 1957.Hubbard (1974) surley expressess this is his leccture on feeling of inadaquacy in rationalism,I hope this helps to clear the air.
 
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Sailing boats are yachts with sails. tho this a bit controversial, as motor yachts can have sails too.


A classic is a sailing yacht built out of GRP between the years of 1959 and 1989.

Wooden boats built in the same years are referred to as [--word removed--], but can still be bought.

Wooden classics are built between 1843 and 1942, but are expensive to maintain, and are usually listed, so you cannot put any up to date electronic equipment on them.

There is a lot of disparity amongst the users, so expect some comments on these guidelines, but basically, that's it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fascinating, Brendan! Who set up those defintions - an why?

BTW - A Sailing Boat is defined as a vessel which was designed primarily to be powered by the wind, and may cary an auxiliary motor. A Motor vessel has an engine as its primary power source, and may have sails. So a dismasted yacht is still a sailing vessel by definition
 
I like the idea of boats being "listed" like an old building and i suppose that in some caees it's strange that they aren't protected at all. I saw a 1934 boat all lovely - but with a seventies galley, eek.
 
Congratulations Finnlou for that unwarranted personal attack you win a one week ban from the forums.

-Keith
 
Is anyone going to give the poor lad a proper answer? Mind you raedwald's offering should have the examiners handing in their notice with a massive inferiority complex.
 
Classic yachts, can be wood, iron, aluminium, GRP or any other material, including Ferro. But they are built in a certain style, often considered old fashioned. (most are) Motor boats are just that, primarilly driven by engine(s) sail boats are primarilly driven by the wind. They make "new" classics, with a certain style, mainly, to be honest, copies of or new designs but old ideas. Anyway, theres more descriptions of classics than there are hairs on a dogs back!
 
Steady there Finnlou

That level of abuse is not on.

I read this forum with my boy often enough - and don't expect find unecessarily abusive and direct words like yours on here.

If you have an issue with Brendan - PM him and take it off the forum.

If you have an issue with my rebuke - then PM me and we can discuss it elsewhere.
 
Nick,

Perhaps a Classic is often the owner of the soul of a person, as opposed to a person just owning a boat?

It's a personal thing, and as such many folks don't agree on whether a particular boat is a classic or not, but if she is proven to be seaworthy and her lines draw the eye as well as they slip through the water - then she will probably end up taking the heart of some poor fool and cost a darn sight more to maintain than she will ever be sold for.

A regular boat is just that - a regular boat.

As for why do folks prefer a classic boat - must be the same as why other folk renovate and look after classic cars. What on earth would make someone choose to drive an old car with no airbags, no crumple zone, 'inefficient' engine, no ABS brakes, etc etc etc? (Myself - I can fully understand why.) There must be loads of research already done on this that you could look at, and there must be a lot of parallels to our small world.
 
Modern cars are generally much better and more eficient in all conditions
(there are exceptions that "prove the rule" /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Modern boats.?.. errmmm no comment
 
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