Advice please - Fulmar or Konsort owners

[CaptainCalamity]

My wife and I are planning a six month cruise down to the med in a couple of years, and are on the lookout for the right boat. We will also be using her for south coast/west country/Britany cruising. At present I have a share in a Westerly 33 Ketch, sailed a Dufour 2800 with a lifting keel before that. The shortlist as it stands is between a Fulmar and a Konsort.

As I see it a fin keeled Fulmar is the higher performance boat, with a better passage making speed, and obviously it would give us more room aboard (mostly it will be the two of us, with friends joining us on the longer passages).

OTOH a bilge keeled Konsort would be smaller (too small for what we've planned do you think?) and therefore cheaper, plus it would let us get to the shallower/drying anchorages that I used to enjoy in the Dufour. Not sure how a BK would be in a Biscay gale though if we got caught out.

I've not sailed either boat before, and I wasn't planning on test sailing them in a gale, so any reports of how they stand up to a decent offshore blow would be appreciated.

Many thanks,

Andy

 

[boatmike]

The big advantage of a bilge keeler is that you can indeed creek crawl and dry out with the tide. Where there is little tide however you won't need to worry about drying out and shallow anchorages are not a problem. Personally I would go for the biggest boat you can afford as living aboard you will need the space for storage if for nothing else....

 

[Robin]

Why not another W33 or the aft cockpit version Discus (same hull)? Absolutely ideal as you should of course know and similar price to the Fulmar which will seem small after the W33. Fulmar is a good boat though as is the Konsort but size does matter if you want extended liveaboard time IMHO.

Robin

 

[CaptainCalamity]

I haven't discounted getting a W33, but was keen to go for something a little smaller and try and keep the running costs down now they won't be shared three ways. Also, I find the 33 to be a slow boat in light airs - I was thinking that perhaps the Fulmar would be a touch faster.

Andy.

 

[Lizzie_B]

Yes, I was also thinking why not another W33 or Discus? If W33 then also opportunity for bilge keels. My cousin had W33 for many years and sailed some very long passages in it, encountering some pretty severe weather, and never doubted her ability to deal with the weather. He never felt bilge keels left him short of what he needed on the performance side for cruising and came into their own when in Brittany.

 

[Robin]

There is however a BIG speed difference between the Fin and Bilge versions of the W33. We have friends with them and my estimate is around half a knot on average, even off the wind and upwind they would have to motorsail every so often to catch us up. The bilge keeler doesn't track as well as the fin either, maybe the shorter rudder depth. Trick with a bilge keeler is don't sail in company with the fin!

We got our (Fin) W33 sailing well in light winds but had fully battened mainsail, fully battened mizzen and all sails were cut in better cloth and to a 'cruiser/racer spec. We even managed line honours (not hcp) on a light wind upwind club race Poole to Lymington beating a Fulmar and several other of more 'sporty' pedigree. Superior skill of course helps.. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Robin

 

[Lizzie_B]

Aargh! Tis all down to the captain knowing how to get the best from his boat!

 

[absit_omen]

Speed is not the issue as you will spend most of your time in the Med motoring with extreme frustration. After a couple of years you will get p****d off with it and head into the Atlantic where your bilge keels will be an absolute blessing in tidal, drying areas.

I would go for the Konsort (and the best one you can find on the second hand market). If you are worried about storms, get to the Med through the canals.

We had a Konsort Duo three boats ago. She sid not set the world alight in sailing terms but was lusciously comfortable dried out in a cosy creek (or Cala or Ria!). The savings on marina fees will be VERY significant.

 

[Bergman]

Have siled a fin keel Konsort and a bilge Fulmar.

Liked the Konsort

Hated the Fulmar

Not convinced that there is that much advantage in internal space in the Fulmar but it may be that there is more stowage, which I guess is important.

I suspect the reason I hated the Fulmar was the bilge keel, the thing slammed something awful, scared the life out of me. I did'nt like the East Coast, would'nt have gone anywhere near Biscay in it. Though having said that the owners had cruised far and wide around the North Sea and must have seen some nasty weather.

The Konsort felt solid and bashed along without any great protest, bit wet and none too fast but did'nt frighten anyone.

Probably a bilge Konsort would be as horrid as the bilged Fulmar. Certainly the fin keel Fulmar has an excellent reputation and although I've never sailed one those that I have seen on the water look to move well.

Think I've talked myself into a Fulmar with a fin

 

[jerryat]

Of course it's all a matter of personal preferences in the the end, but FWIW, we've cruised our Fulmar for about 7 years now in the Mediterranean and Caribbean in perfect comfort and with all mod cons.

For their size and price, there is little to beat them for build quality, stowage, handling and performance. Originally we had thought we'd better get a bigger 'liveaboard' boat, but a couple of wiser old friends who'd sailed the oceans, suggested we shuffled off down to the Med. with what we had and see if we liked the life.

Well we did, and have genuinely never wanted a bigger boat since. It's one of the best sailing boats ever built and, coupled with the very good residual values they fetch, not too bad an 'investment'.

If you're keen on marinas (we detest 'em) you'll find that the >10 metre charges in the Med. for example, a lot less than the 10-12m and 12-15m bracket that most 'cruising' boats fall into. The Spanish aren't stupid!!

Ours is the fin keeled version of course, because as others have said (and I've experienced) whatever the twin keel owners tell you, they are neither as fast nor comfortable in a seaway.

I've only sailed a friend's W33 about 3 times, but whilst it was quite pleasant, the Fulmar has that extra sparkle and zip if you understand what I mean. I think the TV property progs call it the WOW factor!!

 

[Robin]

Well you are right about the bilge keels, bilge keeled Konsorts slam badly, sleeping in the quarter berths at sea is very noisy! They are quicker though than you would think once off the wind. I found the fin keeled Fulmar sailed very well (never sailed a bilge keel one), but still think the extra space and power of the W33/Discuss wins out, but like most owners although in my case ex-owner, I'm biased. Lots of W33s did the RTW and Transatlantic circuits, not so many Fulmars to my knowledge although Jerryat did it in his so there is first hand opinion.

 

[starboard]

The Fulmar.......the best boat Westerly ever built, fab fast cruiser, well built with loads of nice wood below.........it will be my next yacht.

Paul.

 

[Matrosen]

Well known saying: " In the Med you motor from gale to gale."

 

[CaptainCalamity]

Thanks everyone for your helpful words.

Spent the morning looking at a Fulmar, and she cetainly has a lot more room than the Konsort. More stowage, bigger heads, bigger nav area = decision made. I reckon the fin is the one to go for based on the comments above, although a test sail in both will be the decider.

Andy

 

[asj1]

Hi,
I own (part of) both a Konsort and a Fulmar. Both bilge keeled but in different places.
Main differences are the Fulmar sails much better - at least 20 percent faster and points better. In other words it is a much better sailing boat.
Everything is slightly bigger on board - particularly the saloon,galley area ,slightly more storage and better chart table. BUT you do lose out in the size of the forecabin, it is much smaller in the Fulmar and the bunk is higher. The quarter berth is also a lot more difficult to get in and out of -you would never get two people into it in the Fulmar, and I think the headroom is less. This is all the price you pay for a much prettier looking boat. Indeed when first looking at what to buy I discounted the Fulmar as not representing a sufficient "move-up" from the Konsort, but a year later bought one anyway !
As for crossing Biscay - never done it, Furthest I have done was Falmouth to Kinsale in the Konsort, but I have never been worried about the strength of these boats.
For local cruising ie 2-3 weeks I would have no problem with either of these craft , but personally I wouldn't want to long term liveaboard on something of this size.
As regards the bilge vs Fin, consider what sort of sailing you are really going to do - is it really ocean passages or day sails with an occasional 48hours on good weather, if the latter then the ability to dry out and explore shallower estuaries wins every time for me.

Andrew