Advice please from all you hardened boat people out there!

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craigdiver

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Hi All,

I have just got supreme authorisation (from the wife!) to buy myself my first little boat (thinking of a 14-16ft GRP hulled boat with cuddy). I have RYA speedboat cert.

Questions are;
Would one of these little boats be stable enough to climb up the side of the boat (on a ladder) after diving (would occasionally be used for diving).

Also, I am used to using fast RIBS (for diving) which consume fuel at an alarming rate. What sort of outboard engine would I be best using for economy for when just out for a cruise (Do you get diesel outboards, are they expensive?)

How far from shore can these little boats be taken (obviously with the appropriate safety gear (VHF, GPS, lifejackes, flares, small spare outboard etc.). Does it depend on weather conditions or are there governing laws?

Any advice greatly appreciated,

CraigDiver
 
OK first I'm not exactly hardened.

I've been in a similar size GRP boat (although not a cuddy where do they fit it??!). It did rather roll around a lot if not very calm water. I had a 5m RIB and that seemed to roll less and was more stable climing into by swimmers with a rope swim ladder.

I wouldn't put anything bigger that a 50hp on it but that depends as much on the actual boat design, the passeneger/kit load and your abilities.

You can get diesel outboards but don't know anything about them. Yanmar do some I beleive?

As for how far, sea conditions/experience/on own or with other boats..... I'd feel more comfortable with a RIB personally but I can see you want a cuddy.

Good luck,

Steve.
 
I have a very limited budget of around £850, and would like it as a family cruiser too (cuddy great for escaping from the weather and making some lovely hot soup!!!).

Thanks for your advice.

CraigDiver
 
Hi and welcome, I am sure you will find the opinions herein to be entertaining if nothing else. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

At the risk of being shot down for pushing one of my own products, it sounds to me like you need a large (4m or 5m) inflatable: cheap to buy, economical to run and great for diving.

Let me know if I can PM you some info.
 
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it sounds to me like you need a large (4m or 5m) inflatable: cheap to buy, economical to run and great for diving.

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Please feel free to PM me with some information and prices (I still think I would like a cuddy for escaping from wind & rain as I live in Scotland and we have lots of wind & rain).

I would also imagine a GRP hull would provide less friction with water therefore being more economical to cruise (only an assumption and probably wrong /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif)

Thanks

CraigDiver
 
Craig,

I totally understand the desire to escape the rain!

I also had a Zodiac Futura, great boats and totally inflatible (you can get ridged floors too). They have an inflatable keel and "speed tubes" which run parallel to the keel. For that size boat I doubt it would be any less efficent. However they aren't cheap!

Trouble is shallow keel means you are subject to major drift when you stop. Whilst waiting for the bigger boats to sort out morring lines at Yarmouth I had to run around in circles with to stop myself drifting into everyone.

If you don't need to sleep onboard there are a few grp boats with a small hardtop, you could rig a canvas hood over the back. Not exactly pretty but when we have firm budgets we have to make compromises;-) Been there meself!
 
14' with a cuddy - sounds like the sort used for angling in these parts. Something like "Orkney" or similar. These are non-planing, designed to take about 8-10HP outboard.

I would be wary of trying to climb over the side of a 14' boat - likely to be a bit unstable IMHO. Better to rig steps over the transom (use with engine off!!).

As far as I know there are no legal restriction over distance offshore, weather conditions or required experience. However, common sense will dictate! I would suggest keep within sight of land, judge sea conditions by what others are doing - if in doubt don't go out. At the end of the day, 14' is still a SMALL boat. Any more than about 2'-3' waves and you are in serious risk, and what happens if it gets worse (it will)?

VHF, flares and lifejacket all essential. GPS useful but not essential. Spare O/B more likely to get in the way, maybe better with some oars!
 
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14' with a cuddy - sounds like the sort used for angling in these parts. Something like "Orkney" or similar. These are non-planing, designed to take about 8-10HP outboard.

I would be wary of trying to climb over the side of a 14' boat - likely to be a bit unstable IMHO. Better to rig steps over the transom (use with engine off!!).

As far as I know there are no legal restriction over distance offshore, weather conditions or required experience. However, common sense will dictate! I would suggest keep within sight of land, judge sea conditions by what others are doing - if in doubt don't go out. At the end of the day, 14' is still a SMALL boat. Any more than about 2'-3' waves and you are in serious risk, and what happens if it gets worse (it will)?

VHF, flares and lifejacket all essential. GPS useful but not essential. Spare O/B more likely to get in the way, maybe better with some oars!

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Thank you so much Mike, very useful information, I would probably go down the ladder from transom route (would keep spare small enging strapped to top of cuddy as I think unrealistic to try to row these things anywhere - been there done that and been rescued by lifeboat)

In this day and age of very cheap GPS, great to tell lifeboat roughly where you are with GPS co-ordinates.

What size / kind of boat would I need to be more suitable for farther offshore in rougher conditions (keeping in mind I want to be able to easily launch and recover boat onto trailer)

Cheers

Craig Diver
 
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(I still think I would like a cuddy for escaping from wind & rain as I live in Scotland and we have lots of wind & rain)....

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Now where in Scotland? ... Some places are very exposed and a RIB will give you the extra boyancy & security you may need...

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I would also imagine a GRP hull would provide less friction with water therefore being more economical to cruise)....

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I guess that the RIB's you have used have been well laden down with the kit as well, and as such, the engien(s) will have been working hard, even at moderate speeds. You will find that with less equipment, you'll burn less per mile (as speed creeps up), but generally RIB's (fibreglass hull + tubes) are very efficient as the tube does generate some lift at speed, and as such reduce friction.... however do undertand the desire for a cuddy .... but do expect that the cuddy will be less capable of handling the wind and waves than an equivialent RIB.
 
Hi Craig and welcome!

A few comments I would make are:

1) If your going to have a fairly small engine then you won't want to be going too far as progress will be slow on a good day and if you get caught out in bad weather it will be slow/uncomforatble/scary/dangerous coming back in.

2) If your going to have a larger engine (relitively speaking) then for any distance your going to need a fair bit of fuel.

3) with the above in mind if your wanting to dive your going to be restricted on space due to fuel or on how far you can go due to time/speed

4) Not sure what depths your looking to dive but you'll want a decent anchor setup to make sure you don't have a long swim home, again this will take up more space!

So think carefully about what your hoping to put in the boat in terms of weight of people/equipment/fuel etc

My first boat was 17ft with a 70hp outboard, in the solent it was fine cause I was mainly between southampton, Portsmouth and the Isle of wight, but even that could be uncomfortable AND scary, the two 5gal tanks would normally be enough for a day on the water, probably used something along the lines of 2 maybe 3 gal/hour, dependant on use of course!

Best of luck and hope you find something you like!!

Charlie
 
read something quite sensible on buying boats recently. Namely, all boats are a compromise, but ensure that it does at least do the main thing you want to do with it, even if that means foregoing some other "extras". I cant help thinking that its diving thats of interest,a cuddy a bonus. Going for both might mean that really its no good at either. Think the point is that in making too many compromises you only later come to realise that the damn thing doesnt even do what you really wanted in the first place. Dunno- but perhaps something to think about.
 
Boats that travel displacement speeds may be economical, but are pretty slow progress if you're going to sea. One of the samll planing dory type boats like the SeaHog would suit. The cathedral style hulls gives a lot more stability at anchor. Fishermen prefer them.
Boats and outboards and eBay always have plenty. £850 would probably get a boat needing a bit of work. 30hp plus outboards included at that sort of price could be either dependable or very dodgy.
There's a boat on Boats and Outboards in you bracket at the moment, but the picture is rubbish.
Fishing Boat

There is also a Mayland which is a good little boat, but not so quick.

Mayland
SUN564_1.jpg


You haven't told us where you are. That could make a difference to the sort of boat you need.
 
Displacement boat with 8-10hp, going to see about 5kts? So have to be very carful on weather and tides you could very easily make no progress at all in the wrong situation and location. I'm not sure on spring tide rates up in bonny Scotland.

OK you can judge the conditions on the day but think carefully about whether compromising on boat capability and only going out when the conditions are right - slow wind, calm sea state, benefitial tides. How many days will you end up going out and still needing the cuddy for weather protection?

Another thing to consider is often boats are more capable in sea states we'd actually want to go out in. If you take the family out and it's all over the shop they might not thank you;-)

I really like the idea of what yr proposing tho' and similar choices took me down a Scandinavian hardtop boat, although with a 170hp KAD32 inboard.

LakeSailor made a good point, for the money you might expect the boat needing a bit of work. That can make a good winter project!
 
I read you would want to do a bit of diving too. Sounds ace. Transom ladder makes it easier (read possible!) to get in but in rougher conditions banging into divers in the water as they approach boat or you come in to pick them up (approach with wind behind you, engine off drift in, you'll know the drill from yr diving experience) they can stoll find it hard and may take more retries than a RIB where you can come in over the sides and a bash don't hurt so much;-)

Sorry not being negative honest!
 
Please can someone explain the difference between a cuddy and a dory?

Thanks Lakesailor for the picture, I initially thought that style would be unsuitable, but if I were using it for diving (probably 50/50 split between diving & cruising) I could rig a ladder off the transom for exiting the water.

The boat 95% of the time would be used in The Firth of Forth, hopefully used to vist May Isle, Inchcolm Island & Bass Rock. Also used in Lochs (seawater such as Loch Fyne & Loch Long). And possibly on the West coast (through Forth-Clyde canal) round Bute etc.

I have young children (4 & 5) who are keen to get out on the water and I feel a RIB would be too easy to fall overboard! (would be wearing lifejackets of course)

For the record I would never go diving and leave the boat anchored unattended, this practice, as far as diving goes is a big no no!

If anyone has any boats for sale that may suit, please feel free to PM me. When I go diving at Loch Fyne, I always see boats sitting in peoples drives which have clearly never moved for years (covered in green algae). I fancy trying my luck with some of these. I presume green algae comes off GRP easily with a pressure washer?

I also fancy the idea someone mentioned about being able to sleep in it (my GPS would alert me if anchor lost grip and started drifting in the middle of the night). Is ther enough room to sleep in a 14/16ft boat?

CraigDiver
 
you need a little old shetland with about a 40hp OB and a transom ladder...........however much better to use it to get you round to a beach/rocks cove/shallows and dive from there.

at 1200 I might feel more comfortable that the OB was good - at 850 you can't expect much I am afraid and will quickly end up buying new trailer/engine etc so a bit of a false economy.

good luck
 
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you need a little old shetland with about a 40hp OB and a transom ladder...........however much better to use it to get you round to a beach/rocks cove/shallows and dive from there.

at 1200 I might feel more comfortable that the OB was good - at 850 you can't expect much I am afraid and will quickly end up buying new trailer/engine etc so a bit of a false economy.

good luck

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I have noticed that price appears to be directly related to engine size and that engine size obviously determines speed/capacity. Therfore, I was looking for a GRP hulled (low maintenenace) boat with a 20hp ish engine to keep costs down (or no engine / would source myself). Not looking for speed, but do need to make progress in windy conditions).

Is a 'Shetland' got a wooden hull?

Thank you so much for your advice.
 
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