Advice on buying a Lifting Keel trailer sailer

kpygall

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I have been sailing for the last 4 seasons having both enjoyed racing and cruising on 34-55ft yachts.These however are totally out of my price range. I am keen on the idea of a small lifting keel vessel which I can trailer and handle easily, my budget is up to £7000. I have done some research on the internet and like the look of the Swift 18 ETAP 20 Jaguar 21 but don't know their track record. What is the most popular boat around this size? Can some of you old sweats out there help me in my choice?
 

Avocet

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Depending on your price range and tastes, you might wish to consider an Evolution. They made a 19' (I think), a 22' and a 26'. We had the 22 for a while. It was pretty quick and quite nicely finished below. It was probably about as big as you'd ever want to tow on the road regularly (8'2" beam) and a complete pain to recover because it sat in a partial mould of its own bottom on the trailer so there were no "hard" points to locate it easily. It was also very difficult to antifoul and scrub!

We had great fun on inland and sheltered water with it but it was far too light for the sea in anything much above a F4 in the waters we used to sail.

Although we did tow it a few times with a car, you'd really want a 4X4 to give you complete independence on slipways.
 

graham

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My Anderson 22 is quick and sea worthy 4 berths but cramped with 4 aboard over night. Personally I think that about 18 to 20 feet is as big as you want to be trailing regularily.Bigger is OK if you have a 4x4 and a safe method of raising the mast without relying on brute strength,

Have a look at the pics in the links below.For the Anderson 22 website and in photobox for pics of my boat.

http://www.anderson22class.co.uk/
 

Pisces

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Parker did a nice small lift keeler (the 21?). There new 24 is very nice.

The Seal 22 is also a good boat wich sails OK.

Aslo the First 21 is a nice boat but probably out of the price range.

Pandora (22ft) also cone in a lift keel version - I had a bilge keeler and that sailed well.

I have just moved up to a super seal 26 - slighly out of you range 12- 15K but a nice boat. It is also a lift keeler - allows me to get in and out of Keyhaven.

Good luck
 

fastjedi

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Trouble is ... a high proportion of trailer sailers disappeared off my list simply for being too ugly! I agree with the earlier comment about size! If you are planning to use it for proper trailer sailing think long and hard before venturing over 22 foot. Even if you have an approapriate tow vehicle the mast will be difficult to handle without a couple of mates or an A frame. Your budget puts you in a difficult category. There isn't much about between £5K and £10K. I would be loooking at an ETAP (good reputation, well made, double skinned) or a Parker 21. Swift 18's are good but expensive.

And finally, Pay at least as much attention to the trailer as the yacht. You need 100% confidence in your trailer to enjoy trailer sailing to the full!
 

seumask

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We had a Hunter Medina(20 ft) and now have a Hunter Delta(25 ft). We never got round to the trailering bit, but intend to one day, be aware that it does take quite sometime around 4 hours to get the boat on and off the trailer. We sail the solent mainly and enjoy the extra freedom a proper lift keeler gives you with regards to mooring on the beach and acess to area's other yachts can't reach. Performance for both of these boats is good, but accomodation is slightly comprimised by the keel lifting arangements.
 

PeteCooper

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It depends on what you will be using the boat for. If you want to go racing or just want high performance, then any of the Micro 18s would be ideal. The Swift 18 was designed to the Micro 18 rule, but is a lot slower than most other varieties. The Hunter Medina is slightly larger and is a super wee boat.
 

MacW

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Agree . It depends how you envisage your sailing. Do you want a little big boat or a big little boat ? Do you see yourself coastal cruising and on your way up to a much bigger boat, or do you want to explore or ditch crawl the areas your trailer can get the boat to?
Some years ago I went from a sailing cruiser to a Drascombe Longboat Cruiser and had enormous fun for a couple of seasons.Trailerable behind the family car, easy to launch and recover (although heavier than you would think- bombproof constuction),went like the clappers under sail ( huge drive from a loose-footed main) and an 8hp Yamaha made it fly.Plus you could row it, and run it up a beach, and it was unsinkable.I remember being out on some very dirty days indeed, and arriving in various ports around the Forth, to the astonishment of onlookers,with the boat still sailing,half full of water !
 

Colvic Watson

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Hunter 19 is a cracking boat - received a fantastic used boat write up in PBO few years back. Thing is, at £1500 for a very good one, plus or sometimes including trailer, you get a whole lot of boat for your money.
 

PeteCooper

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The Hunter 19 or slightly later Europa on the same hull, just different cabin moulding are both superb boats. Brilliant to sail, surprisingly quick, and tough as old boots. Trouble is I don't think that they were made with a lifting keel, or if they were then there can't have been many made.
 

William_H

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Have a look at Trailetr Sailer Place an Oz forum dediicated to trailer sailers. http://au.msnusers.com/TRAILERSAILERPLACE
Mine has a vertically lifting keel and very flat bottom ie no stub keel which makes for easy retrieval and very shallow anchoring for going ashore. The down side is the way the keel case intrudes in the cabin. It is 21 ft but light and I have retrieved easily with a 2 litre toyota. however auto transmission makes it very easy. http;//au.msnusers.com/CASTLE650GROUP
A friend has just bought a Magnum 8.5 thats 27.5 feet. It is a bit awesome on a trailer. A nice boat but limited to 2.5 metre beam makes it quite narrow. Around here some people trail fixed keel yachts up to 20 ft but it is a bit tedious retrieving however fine if you use a mooring for much of the time (as I do). Good l;uck with your quest for a trailer sailer. i suggest you consider carefully which ramp you will use for launching before deciding what you can handle. regards olewill
PS any TS that is light to tow is going to be lively in a seaway.
 

Seal_surfer

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As an east coast mud sailor I have owned and tried a few and would make 3 firm recommendations in your price range, depending on the sort of sailing you want:

1) Drascombe lugger/longboat or perhaps coaster (has a cabin, but maybe over your budget)

2) Hunter Medina - excellent sailing performance, flush bottom/~1' draught, plentiful and well built

3) Foxterrier - as Medina, but less common.

I have also loved owning a Seal 22 and this has more useful accomodation than above, but not really a trailer sailor and not as quick, but a better family boat.
 

anubis

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Etap 20 or 22i my pref or for traditional Cornish Crabber, shrimper?
You will definately get a quality boat, double skin and so structurally ahead of all others. They do what they say on the tin AND you can get parts easily. AND you will get your money back when you sell because everyone knows these are quality boats...oh and they don't sink and are well balanced and fast and set up for single handed.
Good luck...
owned a few of different sizes. All take about 2hrs to launch from arrival to departure from the slip...so be prepared. On this trailed boats take a beating on the road so look out for a qulaity trailer..it means the boats had a good ride. PM if you decide to go with Etap and want detailed advice on what to look out for. Drascombe coaster for sale at Retreat Topsham...also sought after, Swift is and Hunter 701 if you want to sail quick. of course all Cornish crabbers hold value and are superb
 

davey

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Advice needed re "permits from the council"

Depending on your price range and tastes, you might wish to consider an Evolution. They made a 19' (I think), a 22' and a 26'. We had the 22 for a while. It was pretty quick and quite nicely finished below. It was probably about as big as you'd ever want to tow on the road regularly (8'2" beam) and a complete pain to recover because it sat in a partial mould of its own bottom on the trailer so there were no "hard" points to locate it easily. It was also very difficult to antifoul and scrub!

We had great fun on inland and sheltered water with it but it was far too light for the sea in anything much above a F4 in the waters we used to sail.

Although we did tow it a few times with a car, you'd really want a 4X4 to give you complete independence on slipways.

As you have already done a lot of trailer-sailing perhaps you could offer the rest of us some advice. Do you use public slipways or private? These days some councils employ Jobsworths who insist that there is "No launching boats without a permit from the council". Now as most people will be boating at the weekend when the council offices are closed we have a "Catch 22" situation. Incidentally North Devon councils are the worst offenders in this respect and one beach/slipway has large signs "No Motor Vehicles, No Launching of Boats, No Jetskis". Curiously when one walks down to the beach there is a 4x4 parked AND a jetski both belonging to the council. Instow is another bad place as one Sunday afternoon a yachtsman who had bought a 3.3HP Mariner the previous day wanted to try it out. I loaned him an eight foot inflatable dinghy but before he had even pumped it up the Jobsworth appeared. Apparently "Captain Bligh" (who had sailed to Australia some years earlier) and the Jobsworth had an hour long argument which only ended when the Jobsworth threatened to call the police. And they say that Britain is a free country!
 

Neil

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A Hawk 20 might be worth looking for - cabin or dayboat versions, though you might struggle to get one on your budget. Not sure of rigging time.

For an open dayboat, a Lune or Coastal Whammel might do - long shoal keel and short mast with the gaff rig - takes 20-30 mins to rig, easy to launch. Again not many about at a good price.

Unless you're going somewhere for a week or long weekend, a 2 hour or more rig-time will take the fun out of it.
 

ianat182

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I believe there were some Sonatas with lifting keels and also the TrapperTS240 which I've sailed in a race or two and cruising. They both have space and pace but of course will have the outboard engines, up to 10hp will be plenty,5hp minimum though.
i have sailed on but not helmed a Medina some years ago and I agree with the earlier comment.
The Hunter Delta mat be a possibility but I haven't seen them around much now,they strongly resemble the Sonata,Duette and Medinas as all designed by David Thomas, likewise the Liberty.
As said prices will vary ,particularly among the Sonatas if in a racing location,but
going somewhat cheaper/older the Seal 22 has a good performance; PM if interested in the latter which is located at Ringwood c/w 9.9hp Outboard and trailer My friends' boat is out of the water and they may be able to assist with a mooring in that area.



ianat182
 

Lakesailor

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Can some of you old sweats out there help me in my choice?
Have you perused this site?

Vague mentions of the tow vehicle should be researched seriously. You mustn't tow a trailer/load that is heavier than the vehicle manufacturer's rating. Your insurance will be invalid as a starter.
Wide beams are a pain in the arse. I live in an area with narrow roads and stone walls. The micro racer I bought had an 8ft plus beam and towing that is demanding as the drivers coming the other way are the biggest danger.

Maximum Size

The maximum width of a trailer must not exceed 2.3 metres (7’6”) or 2.5 metres (8’2.5”) when towed by a heavy goods vehicle. The trailer must not extend more than 305mm (12”) outwards each side of the towing vehicle, irrespective of allowable width.
The maximum permitted trailer body length without the tow bar is 7 metres but the overall train length must not exceed 18.35 metres.

and

Your load must not project more than 305mm either side of your trailer and not give an overall width of over 2.9m (9' 6")

If you need to exceed any of these overhangs you can but it is classed as an abnormal load and you need to inform the police

The boats over 20 ft need a bit of consideration. if you intend to trail/sail to different locations I'd suggest a smallish boat. If you intend to use the trailer just to go home and back a few times a year, the slightly bigger boats are more do-able.
Don't make the mistake of going to the max you can.
You will find that you get less use from it as the hassle will make it more of a grind.
 

ProDave

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Firstly has anyone noticed this is a 6 year old thread? I suspect the original poster might have found his answer by now :)

Secondly on the size of boat, isn't there some clause that allows a larger "indivisible load" than the general regulations, which is how glider pilots get away with towing 30ft trailers behind an ordinary car.
 

Lakesailor

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Nope, I hadn't spotted that.
I feel such a fool.

Hang on................

Anyone reading it in this incarnation will still be getting some decent advice.

All is not lost.

( I think we can justifiably blame Davey for this. He should have started a new thread about public slipways)
 
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