Advice on buying a boat in Greece

[Poosh]

Hello!

I want to buy a boat in Greece. What are the pitfalls? How do I register VAT paid? Are there any hidden costs? Do I need to go to anyone for advice? I intend to retire and liveaboard int he next year - want to buy now and sniff around this summer!

Poosh

 

[affinite]

Welcome to the forum

YOU dont need to register VAT paid unless you are buying a boat from outside the EU and importing it to an EU member country - in which case VAT has to paid at the level applicable in that country. Search these forums for threads on the subject. There have been many.
Much simpler to buy a boat which is already EU country flagged eg UK

If buying a boat that carries the flag of an EU country make sure that the seller can prove that VAT has been paid. An original VAT invoice is the usual document and should should insist that that document should be passed to you as a condition of the sale.

In theory when entering an EU country local customs & excise can ask to see proof that VAT has been paid, although Ive never been asked for it.

By the way my boat is for sale in Greece and I have the Orginal VAT invoice )

 

[Tranona]

If you are buying a boat from another EU resident then no VAT is involved, although it is best to get evidence that VAT has been paid. You will find that boats from other countries are likely to have better paperwork trails than many UK boats - particularly older ones. You may also need to get involved in deregistering a boat from another registry, although normally this is the vendor's problem.

Be aware that many Greek boats are ex charter boats, and may be offered ex VAT. This means that you will have to pay the charter operator VAT (23%) for which you will get an invoice. Make sure you include this in your calculations. You will also need to pay to deregister the boat and transfer ownership to you. There are also some older charter boats where VAT has never been paid as before 2002 they were sold (legally) VAT free.

If you are UK resident you can register your new boat on the SSR without any formalities and still keep it in Greece.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

If you are buying a boat from another EU resident then no VAT is involved, although it is best to get evidence that VAT has been paid. You will find that boats from other countries are likely to have better paperwork trails than many UK boats - particularly older ones. You may also need to get involved in deregistering a boat from another registry, although normally this is the vendor's problem.

Be aware that many Greek boats are ex charter boats, and may be offered ex VAT. This means that you will have to pay the charter operator VAT (23%) for which you will get an invoice. Make sure you include this in your calculations. You will also need to pay to deregister the boat and transfer ownership to you. There are also some older charter boats where VAT has never been paid as before 2002 they were sold (legally) VAT free.

If you are UK resident you can register your new boat on the SSR without any formalities and still keep it in Greece.

All the above.

 

[nimbusgb]

If you are buying a boat from another EU resident then no VAT is involved, although it is best to get evidence that VAT has been paid. You will find that boats from other countries are likely to have better paperwork trails than many UK boats - particularly older ones. You may also need to get involved in deregistering a boat from another registry, although normally this is the vendor's problem.

Be aware that many Greek boats are ex charter boats, and may be offered ex VAT. This means that you will have to pay the charter operator VAT (23%) for which you will get an invoice. Make sure you include this in your calculations. You will also need to pay to deregister the boat and transfer ownership to you. There are also some older charter boats where VAT has never been paid as before 2002 they were sold (legally) VAT free.

If you are UK resident you can register your new boat on the SSR without any formalities and still keep it in Greece.

Any idea where this is documented? I know it's the case but some references might help me out!

 

[affinite]

PM sent

All the above.

PM sent

 

[Tranona]

Any idea where this is documented? I know it's the case but some references might help me out!

Not sure what you mean by "documented".

The position re VAT in general throughout the EU is well covered by the RYA advice on the subject, although they go a bit heavy on the need for keeping a VAT receipt. This reflects HMRC advice that if there is a dispute about VAT the only evidence they will accept of payment is the original invoice. However, this is a gross oversimplification of the law - there is no legal requirement to keep the invoice, neither is it possible for a private individual to commit any VAT offence except if they were personally responsible for importing a boat and therefore liable to pay VAT direct to the authorities.

As to the specifics of ex charter boats in Greece, my information is based on my own experience of buying such a boat. Prior to 2002 one of the advantages of having a boat on the charter register was that you could reclaim the VAT (this is still the case, as with any other business asset). However, the icing on the cake was that, to encourage operators to replace their fleets regularly they permitted the sale of ex charter boats without VAT. They lost out to the EU on that one.

So, there will be boats on which VAT has never been paid - but that is now lost in the mists of time, and if you buy from a private EU resident it becomes irrelevant. If there was any investigation onto a VAT offence, it would be directed at the operator who sold the boat, not subsequent owners.

As with all things related to VAT on boats, once you have grasped the basic rules, you can usually work out the position in a specific case based on the nature of the transaction.

If it helps, I bought my boat in 2001 but it was formally owned by a Greek company and registered as a charter boat. When ownership was transferred to me at the end of the contract I paid VAT on the agreed value, which was approximately 50% of the new cost. So in other words I "saved" half the VAT - but the boat was not mine exclusively for 7 years. I have a VAT receipt from tth Greek management company.

For a boat that has been in continuous private ownership and always in the EU from new, the original invoice is largely an irrelevance.

 

[nimbusgb]

Thanks Tranona. I am in the same position, bought mine from someone privately who bought it originally from a Greek charter company.

 

[exfinnsailor]

However, the icing on the cake was that, to encourage operators to replace their fleets regularly they permitted the sale of ex charter boats without VAT

Wonder how many Greeks were registered charter operators with only one expensive boat. Bit like how many Greek millionaires earn less than 10.000 euro a year so pay no tax.

The way they have carried on. Its not surprising they are in a MESS

 

[Tranona]

Wonder how many Greeks were registered charter operators with only one expensive boat. Bit like how many Greek millionaires earn less than 10.000 euro a year so pay no tax.

The way they have carried on. Its not surprising they are in a MESS

As with many things in Greece, the official rules are very tight, so legitimate small operators can have a hard time complying - but the opportunities for people who have the money and influence are vast! The major objective is to hide ones wealth, which is why there is now a law to tax all boats over a certain size annually irrespective of where they are registered or who owns them. It is clear from the way the rates are structured it is aimed at rich Greeks who own expensive large powerboats. However it has not been implemented partly because it will drive away rich non Greeks who base their boats there and are an important source of tourist income.

You could see the impact of the proposal by comparing the number of boats and size moored in Gouvia in 2009 and 2010 (when the law was passed).

 

[suse]

Excuse my ignorance, but is this proposed tax on Greek boats or any boats which are in Greek waters (ie a UK registered boat)?

S x

 

[Tranona]

Excuse my ignorance, but is this proposed tax on Greek boats or any boats which are in Greek waters (ie a UK registered boat)?

S x

Any boats in Greek waters. Intended to catch Greek owners who register their boats elsewhere (often UK) specifically to avoid taxes. Primarily aimed at MOBOS and large sailing yachts (over 15m).

You will appreciate the inherent difficulties in collecting such a tax, and what it might do to the tourist trade - and how those seriously affected will find ways round it.

Just like all the so called austerity measures and pledges to sell state assets to pay off debts - most will never work in practice, or, as in the taxes introduced on property have the opposite effect from what was intended.

 

[Cariadco]

Pinnacle Yachts

Hello!

I want to buy a boat in Greece. What are the pitfalls? How do I register VAT paid? Are there any hidden costs? Do I need to go to anyone for advice? I intend to retire and liveaboard int he next year - want to buy now and sniff around this summer!

Poosh

As one of my previous posts, get in touch with Colin & Sue and Pinnacle Yachts in Corfu.
You'll be pleasantly suprised at their helpfullness and their advice will be spot on.
www.pinnacleyachtsales.com

Regards.

 

[Niall1975]

Hi
We got alot of advice from William & Smithell's about buying in Greeece and then bought from Aura Yachting in Turkey. Our boat was UK registered and VAT paid and the agent moved it to Greece for the sale so VAT registration remained valid. So don't discount Turkey as a buying option as Kos is only a short sail from the Bodrum area. The brokerage was run by an expat and our surveyor was also an expat. All the money was transferred through the agents UK escrow account so all was secure. When we checked in in Greece for our log the only 3 things they wanted to see apart from a fist full of Euro's (well around 40 in total) was our UK registration, ICC's and VAT reciept (our boat is 4 years old). We checked in in Pireaus at Zea Marina. We are now based in Gouvia and having a ball.

Best of Luck

Niall