BSJ2
Well-Known Member
you may have read a previous post of mine talking about changing from mobo to sail. anyway why not go the route of say a nauticat where appears to do both, or am i missing something
advantages or dis-advantage
- Thread starter BSJ2
- Start date
gardenshed
Well-Known Member
Try before you buy.
Don't sell the mobo yet, get a decent small 'ish sail boat as a tender and make sure you can sail well before getting rid of the stink boat.
Alternatively, go and do some racing (etchells, SB3, local one design class, cruiser racer.....folks are always looking for crew) and use the MoBo as a mothership for the racing. This way you'll meet folks who really do sail, get a chance to sail on a variety of boats and have a far better idea about what to buy when you eventually change over.
All boats are a compromise of some sort. Nauticats etc can be excellent, as are Fisher trawler yachts, but because their sailing performance is compromised compared to a sailboat, you either finish up motoring around slowly (with some extra sticks and weight aloft) or putting effort into sailing and not getting a great deal of feedback or performance from the boat, then wondering what all the fuss is about.
have fun learning
Don't sell the mobo yet, get a decent small 'ish sail boat as a tender and make sure you can sail well before getting rid of the stink boat.
Alternatively, go and do some racing (etchells, SB3, local one design class, cruiser racer.....folks are always looking for crew) and use the MoBo as a mothership for the racing. This way you'll meet folks who really do sail, get a chance to sail on a variety of boats and have a far better idea about what to buy when you eventually change over.
All boats are a compromise of some sort. Nauticats etc can be excellent, as are Fisher trawler yachts, but because their sailing performance is compromised compared to a sailboat, you either finish up motoring around slowly (with some extra sticks and weight aloft) or putting effort into sailing and not getting a great deal of feedback or performance from the boat, then wondering what all the fuss is about.
have fun learning
Talbot
Well-Known Member
some people like motorsailors for that reason.
Personally I reckon a catamaran has more advantages, and you could consider a number of cats as being motor sailors (e.g. priveledge and catalac)
Personally I reckon a catamaran has more advantages, and you could consider a number of cats as being motor sailors (e.g. priveledge and catalac)
BSJ2
Well-Known Member
GS. i'm already planing some summer training etc. but just was trying to understand the difference betweena motor sailer (nauticat type)and a sailing boat that presumably all have reasonable size engine?
DJE
Well-Known Member
Most obvious difference is the ability (or lack of it) to sail to windward.
gardenshed
Well-Known Member
Reasonable sized engines, yes, but with a displacement hull, going above 1.4 x square root of waterline length (in ft) is nigh on impossible unless surfing. Even getting close to the basic hydrodynamic limit for a dislacement hull means burning a lot more diesel for little benefit.
waterline length/ Max speed kts
30ft/ 7.67kts
35ft/ 8.28kts
40ft/ 8.85kts
45ft/ 9.39kts
note: waterline length, not length overall. don't believe all the digital read outs that you see during a sales trip!!
Well done for taking some coaching. I'd also really encourage you to do a bit of racing in keel boats. Most important is what makes you grin
waterline length/ Max speed kts
30ft/ 7.67kts
35ft/ 8.28kts
40ft/ 8.85kts
45ft/ 9.39kts
note: waterline length, not length overall. don't believe all the digital read outs that you see during a sales trip!!
Well done for taking some coaching. I'd also really encourage you to do a bit of racing in keel boats. Most important is what makes you grin
BSJ2
Well-Known Member
dje. .... why do they struggle to sail windward?? any ideas
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
limited sail area... hull shape not optimised for windward work.... heavy.....
Bergman
Well-Known Member
They do go to windward very well with a bit of help from Mr Perkins. Obviously with a cone as well.
One point perhaps worth mentioning is that they do tend to look after their inhabitants rather well in bad weather, both in terms of seakeeping and in protection from the elements.
Well thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
One point perhaps worth mentioning is that they do tend to look after their inhabitants rather well in bad weather, both in terms of seakeeping and in protection from the elements.
Well thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
jamesjermain
Well-Known Member
A Nauticat type of motor sailer wont motor significantly faster than a pure sailing boat with a standard sized engine under light to moderate conditionsn. However it will be better at punching to windward under power in heavy weather. Under sail, though, they will be a lot slower than a sailing boat, even a heavy displacement cruiser. In anything under a Force 4 y0u will have the engine on on all points of sailing and in winds over Force 4 you will probably keep the donkey ticking over to get you to windward.
The advantages of this type of boat are mainly:
Under cover sailing
Extra space and comfort
Easily handled, small r
The advantages of this type of boat are mainly:
Under cover sailing
Extra space and comfort
Easily handled, small r
jamesjermain
Well-Known Member
A Nauticat type of motor sailer wont motor significantly faster than a pure sailing boat with a standard sized engine under light to moderate conditionsn. However it will be better at punching to windward under power in heavy weather. Under sail, though, they will be a lot slower than a sailing boat, even a heavy displacement cruiser. In anything under a Force 4 y0u will have the engine on on all points of sailing and in winds over Force 4 you will probably keep the donkey ticking over to get you to windward.
The advantages of this type of boat are mainly:
Under cover sailing
Extra space and comfort
Easily handled, small rigs
Less heeling
The advantages of this type of boat are mainly:
Under cover sailing
Extra space and comfort
Easily handled, small rigs
Less heeling
BSJ2
Well-Known Member
uumm so all in all dis-advantaged i think??
unless going out in grim weather, whcih would be quite a lot in the UK /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
unless going out in grim weather, whcih would be quite a lot in the UK /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
andy_wilson
Well-Known Member
Best of both worlds?
Or perhaps the worst!
Or perhaps the worst!
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
A compromise worth considering is a deck saloon. In jeanneau's case the deck saloon version of their standard sailing boat normally outperforms the classic boat as with the raised floor the water and diesel tanks can be positioned right over the keel bolts. Better weight distribution.
I am not sure of max speed on a Nauticat but I checked mine out this weekend and it did 10Kts at 3800revs on the standard 75hp Yanmar. I was checking the prop pitch on the new feathering prop but it did 10kts when new with a fixed prop. From memory it was about 7.5kts at 2500 revs.
It appears to me that for any given length of yacht (43 in my case) the engine sizes have been increasing over the years for all makes of yachts. I cannot comment about other makes of deck saloon v classic yacht.
What power engines do motorsailors tend to have?
I am not sure of max speed on a Nauticat but I checked mine out this weekend and it did 10Kts at 3800revs on the standard 75hp Yanmar. I was checking the prop pitch on the new feathering prop but it did 10kts when new with a fixed prop. From memory it was about 7.5kts at 2500 revs.
It appears to me that for any given length of yacht (43 in my case) the engine sizes have been increasing over the years for all makes of yachts. I cannot comment about other makes of deck saloon v classic yacht.
What power engines do motorsailors tend to have?
DaveNTL
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
dje. .... why do they struggle to sail windward?? any ideas
[/ QUOTE ]
The other thing is, being a ketch (most Nauticat motor sailers are) the mizzen is pretty useless to windward so, as the mizzen makes up a percentage of the total sail area you could say you lose the effectiveness of that proportion of sail area to windward.
I have to say though that depending on the age and therefore hull design of the Nauticat you don't lose a lot - depending on what 'a lot' is to you.
This is a quote from Yachting Monthly's review of Oisin, a Nauticat 331, in April 2004.
'We went for a test sail in the Solent, and I was very surprised. The peformance of the 331 was comparable to a Moody 346 bilge keeler. She doesn't point very well, but we are happy to motor when necessary. Off the wind she is comfortable and sails well.'
I have a 2001 model Nauticat 38 and we cruised from Rhode Island to Georgia at various times in company with an Island Packet 380 and an older 37 foot Gulfstar, and sailing performance was never an issue. Maybe we were just lucky with where the wind was coming from.
I have to say though that having the ability to 'go indoors' whether to get out of the cold or the heat is something I wouldn't ever compromise on now. Neither is the Nauticats ability to punch through waves head on for fun.
As for engine size / speed - I never exceed 2600 rpm and get 7 knots with a 110HP Yanmar and an 18inch Maxprop. From memory the bumph with the boat says 8.25 knots at 3200 rpm. The motoring cruising range is well over 700 miles.
It really is all 'horses for courses' and personal preference. Oh, and remember that Nauticat advise against going through ice much thicker than three inches!
dje. .... why do they struggle to sail windward?? any ideas
[/ QUOTE ]
The other thing is, being a ketch (most Nauticat motor sailers are) the mizzen is pretty useless to windward so, as the mizzen makes up a percentage of the total sail area you could say you lose the effectiveness of that proportion of sail area to windward.
I have to say though that depending on the age and therefore hull design of the Nauticat you don't lose a lot - depending on what 'a lot' is to you.
This is a quote from Yachting Monthly's review of Oisin, a Nauticat 331, in April 2004.
'We went for a test sail in the Solent, and I was very surprised. The peformance of the 331 was comparable to a Moody 346 bilge keeler. She doesn't point very well, but we are happy to motor when necessary. Off the wind she is comfortable and sails well.'
I have a 2001 model Nauticat 38 and we cruised from Rhode Island to Georgia at various times in company with an Island Packet 380 and an older 37 foot Gulfstar, and sailing performance was never an issue. Maybe we were just lucky with where the wind was coming from.
I have to say though that having the ability to 'go indoors' whether to get out of the cold or the heat is something I wouldn't ever compromise on now. Neither is the Nauticats ability to punch through waves head on for fun.
As for engine size / speed - I never exceed 2600 rpm and get 7 knots with a 110HP Yanmar and an 18inch Maxprop. From memory the bumph with the boat says 8.25 knots at 3200 rpm. The motoring cruising range is well over 700 miles.
It really is all 'horses for courses' and personal preference. Oh, and remember that Nauticat advise against going through ice much thicker than three inches!