Abandon boats

[sailaboutvic]

Each year we come across boats that's been abandoned boats in harbour and anchorages
How do I know there abandon?
Lets see , no fenders , top side gel worn to the mat where they been rubbing, sails left uncovered and hanging out , ripped at times , hatches left open , mooring lines worn to nothing, the list goes on .
I don't except the excuse, maybe the owner been taken ill or he died , there just too many of these boats about , just in one harbour a few days ago five boats and three didn't look that bad although a few more months and it be a very different story .
Wouldn't it be better if they just sold them off for a few hundred pounds and let someone else get some enjoyment out of them .
Two of the yacht I came across this week I be happen to have give 10k for if I knew who the owners was .
In other words they wasn't wrecks and another 15k worth of work and you could have a boat worth 50k at the very less.
It seems people just get fed up with sailing or can't afford to keep the boat and the easy way out is remove any making and walk away .

 

[langstonelayabout]

Each year we come across boats that's been abandoned boats in harbour and anchorages
How do I know there abandon?
Lets see , no fenders , top side gel worn to the mat where they been rubbing, sails left uncovered and hanging out , ripped at times , hatches left open , mooring lines worn to nothing, the list goes on .
I don't except the excuse, maybe the owner been taken ill or he died , there just too many of these boats about , just in one harbour a few days ago five boats and three didn't look that bad although a few more months and it be a very different story .
Wouldn't it be better if they just sold them off for a few hundred pounds and let someone else get some enjoyment out of them .
Two of the yacht I came across this week I be happen to have give 10k for if I knew who the owners was .
In other words they wasn't wrecks and another 15k worth of work and you could have a boat worth 50k at the very less.
It seems people just get fed up with sailing or can't afford to keep the boat and the easy way out is remove any making and walk away .

As (I’m sure it was) Dylan Winter of these parts once said, just still having the boat is keeping the dream alive…

Me? Having had to sell one boat dirt cheap as a emergency clearance (but also having bought a similar one as a project years before) I think some kind of ‘project boats going dirt cheap’ publicity would keep many afloat, keep their yard and club fees paid and also get more into our pastime.

It would also have given me the chance to get that lovely looking classic boat I saw looking sorry for itself at the Folly a few years ago.

What do you think? A national register of ‘projects for GBP 100?’?

 

[duncan99210]

The boats Vic talking about are in various little harbours in Greece. You come across them all of the time, quietly rotting away. It’s a sad sight as well as an irritating one, as their presence blocks otherwise useable berths in free/cheap harbours.

One can only imagine the stories behind them. I’ve never dig into any but I do recall a rather sad looking steel hulled boat in Gouvia (not a cheap place to be!). It wasn’t abandoned but the owner had arrived there some time before, had fallen ill and his boat was quietly dieing along with him. Very sad to see the end of the story unfold.

In Vonitsa a couple of years back at this time of year we got chatting to our next door neighbours. They were on a mission to sort out one of the several boats in the harbour which were clearly lost and lonely. It belonged to a friend who had been in the habit of parking his boat there overwinter and returning to UK; he’d come back in the spring and continue his wandering around Greece. Unfortunately, two winters ago, he’d returned to UK, been diagnosed with some terminal illness and died. His boat was the final part of his estate to be sorted; his family had found one of his summer yachting friends and asked them to help. They’d checked the engine over, got a diver to clean the hull and prop and were preparing to move the boat to a yard in Preveza for sale. We escorted them to Preveza as we were all worried about how reliable the engine would be.

There will be similar tales behind some of the boats. Some will simply be there because the owner fell out of love with sailing, didn’t think they could sell the boat and left it and ran. Some will be project boats that never made it beyond a dream. But they represent a real, ongoing problem for the Greek authorities, as their laws restrict their ability to remove them until they sink.

 

[lw395]

Some tatty boats you see are there to keep possession of cheap moorings.
I've seen this in both Greece and Portsmouth.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Some tatty boats you see are there to keep possession of cheap moorings.
I've seen this in both Greece and Portsmouth.

Nothing to do with cheap mooring in theses cases ,
Two cat we sew last week were clearly been left for some time , shame as the harbour have not been long cleared for another two boats that sunk after being abandon there for some time , I agree with Duncan there lots of reason but one that came to light is people who think they can run a dream on next to nothing only to find they can't , then just dump a badly maintained boat because they not had the money to maintain it rather then finding someone who be happy to take it off there hands .
And those really need to be caught and made to pay for the damage they are doing to harbours and anchorages .

 

[BurnitBlue]

Perhaps if the owners of all "at risk" boats due to age and illness contacted a broker, he could get rid of it, as is, but only if the broker had the documentation.

The real reason the situation builds up is that nobody will admit they are on deaths doorstep until it is too late. I have often wondered what my daughter would do because she has absolutely no interest in boats and could not care less where mine is or its value.

 

[Tranona]

As (I’m sure it was) Dylan Winter of these parts once said, just still having the boat is keeping the dream alive…

Me? Having had to sell one boat dirt cheap as a emergency clearance (but also having bought a similar one as a project years before) I think some kind of ‘project boats going dirt cheap’ publicity would keep many afloat, keep their yard and club fees paid and also get more into our pastime.

It would also have given me the chance to get that lovely looking classic boat I saw looking sorry for itself at the Folly a few years ago.

What do you think? A national register of ‘projects for GBP 100?’?

In a modest way this is already happening with PBO supporting Dave Selby on his mission to convince people of the value of this sort of boat. listened to him at SIBS trying to convert people. also initiatives like the auction on the east coast this weekend of abandoned boats.

The reality however is that the number of people willing to take on such boats is very small and many just stay in the same state with new owners who discover the hard way how unviable many are.

 

[steveeasy]

Can you explain in a little more detail save Selby mission so I understand.
Steveeasy

 

[Tranona]

Can you explain in a little more detail save Selby mission so I understand.
Steveeasy

Read PBO.

Dave Selby is a columnist in the mag. He has a Sailfish 18 and is an advocate of the joys of owning a small old boat. Has just written a book on the subject.

 

[AndrewB]

In Greece, I'm sure that the problem is largely due to the laxity of many harbour authorities in collecting dues, or doing anything about those boats that aren't paying.

This acts as a positive incentive to people to leave dilapidated boats lying around, and not either sorting them, selling them, or scrapping them.

It isn't just abandoned British/French liveaboards that are the problem. Many Greek harbours are stuffed full of neglected small runabouts, probably Greek owned, that are never used.

 

[duncan99210]

In Greece, I'm sure that the problem is largely due to the laxity of many harbour authorities in collecting dues, or doing anything about those boats that aren't paying.

This acts as a positive incentive to people to leave dilapidated boats lying around, and not either sorting them, selling them, or scrapping them.

It isn't just abandoned British/French liveaboards that are the problem. Many Greek harbours are stuffed full of neglected small runabouts, probably Greek owned, that are never used.

It’s not quite as simple as the “authorities” being idle. It’s often the case that there is no authority responsible for a particular quay or harbour. Greek law is obscure on the topic and has changed in the recent past but in many places such as Vonitsa which has no Port Police presence and the local council hasn’t chosen to accept responsibility for managing the harbour/quay then there is quite simply no authority.
In other places, such as Monemvasia, the local council has taken on responsibility for some facilities but not others. Thus the old ferry quay to the north of the causeway is administered by the local council in terms of collecting fees but the “marina” to the south is not managed at all.
Much of it is to do with how places were financed, with the “marinas” built with EU funds but nothing was put in place to manage them once the basic quays were built. Hence they fill with local boats and abandoned yachts, have no facilities and are increasingly useless for their intended purpose of attracting free spending yachts people.
The recent changes are seeing things improve. Preveza marina for example is nearing completion with the shoreside buildings being finished (the whole place should be complete next spring). Places like Sammi and Poros on Kefalonia have a degree of ongoing management in terms of berthing and charging and so on. All to be welcomed but change is slow and incremental in Greece so nothing is going to happen overnight.
A final point. I talked to the PP somewhere (possibly Monemvasia) about abandoned boats. Why not just haul them out and dispose of them, I asked. Apparently there is a mountain to climb before you can legally do that in Greece not least of which is sorting out who has legal responsibility for the harbour/quay. And then you have to identify the owner of the boat so as to serve notice about the boat and a need for it to be removed. And so on and on. Nightmare for the locals who’d much prefer to have another coffee and ignor the problem.

 

[steveeasy]

I think it's fair to say you see some modern boats neglected on moorings as well as old boats. In some ways it's good for marinas as on the whole they get paid.
Older boats provide a good way for people to enter a market .the issue of neglect cam be for a multitude of reasons not just financial.
Where I keep my boat some boats that are desirable and clearly sought after sit and rot. The owners probably can afford to simply let them sit there.
I don't have deep pockets. But keep my boat in tidy order without lavishing untold money on it. It does supprised me motoring down the river hamble how many just sit unattended. But that just how it is.
It could be argued if grp did rot then business would have far less customers and the void would not be filled by new boat sales. There has to be a viable entry level for those who wish to own a boat but simply can't enter the new boat market.
Marinas are at liberty to ask neglected boats to be removed but probably like the income as long as they get paid. It's money that talks after all.
Steveeasy

 

[AndrewB]

...A final point. I talked to the PP somewhere (possibly Monemvasia) about abandoned boats. Why not just haul them out and dispose of them, I asked. Apparently there is a mountain to climb before you can legally do that in Greece not least of which is sorting out who has legal responsibility for the harbour/quay. And then you have to identify the owner of the boat so as to serve notice about the boat and a need for it to be removed. And so on and on. Nightmare for the locals who’d much prefer to have another coffee and ignor the problem.

Many Greek local authorities seem to lack willpower to sort things out, too ready to blame a byzantine legal system but really through sheer lack of initiative, and in the process their areas lose out.

Visitors will go into the new Preveza marina, despite the outrageous price hike, because it will be professionally managed and will not be silted up with free-loaders. The local economy will benefit not only from the income but also from the increase in visitors. Why don't other places - like Monemvasia which I agree is a good example of incompetance - realise this?

Mind you, within my memory there were plenty of harbours in England where an impecunious liveaboard could sink gratefully into the mud without anyone taking much notice, while his boat slowly rotted. But in England, as in most other countries, as demand for boat space rose and this started to be a problem, ways were soon enough found.

 

[oldharry]

It's a problem in this country too. Most Sainling Clubs and smaller yards have a selection of abandoned boats. My former yard still has a Mk1 Corribbeewhich came of her mooring in the 1987 hurricane. She was recovered with mainly cosmetic damage, other than a bent pulpit and a bit out of the rubbing strake. For nearly 20 years she has sat mouldering, while her owner paid for storage. He then died, and the boat, by now a total write off remained where she was. Even a small boat like that is not cheap to dispose of, and involves a day or two's work to cut up, plus the cost of the skip or whatever, so what is the yard to do? Quite apart from that there is the hassle of ensuring that disposal is carried out legally. I woudl think pretty well every boat storage facitlity has this problem, to which there is no simply solution.

Nowadays the situation is even worse, as the second hand market is saturated with smaller boats needing TLC, many if which arent even selling at silly prices.

 

[Cactus Sailing]

there's a boat near me quietly festering away with a jungle growing underneath it...

Still paying their fees though so they must know about it!