A request for Practical Boat Owner

[Jim@sea]

There are many thousands of old boats being enjoyed throught Britain. many with engines where parts are difficult to find, and when they fail,( in some cases),
end up being ripped off by firms advertising "Reconditioned engines" which are faulty. could PBO as a "one off" please buy a Chinese Engine and have it installed in someones boat and do a "Boat Test"
Near my boat someone has bought a 32hp Chinese engine for £2700 complete with Gearbox, and all electrics.
They bought a re-conditioned Perkins which failed the first time they went to sea. And for a lot less money have bought a Chinese one which if it runs as well as it looks imports of Chinese engines will take off, and that for many boat owners is what we need.
(yes I realise that Chinese Outboards have a poor reputation but the two people I know with Chinese Inboards are delighted)

 

[J Neeves]

It only works when there are one or 2 producers. I'm guessing there are many tens if not hundreds of manufacturers of Chinese marine diesels. I am sure some of them are excellent, if not faultless, and there are others. I'd guess that importers work on some concept of quality and then of price, or maybe the other way round. Consequently one imported now (and say tested by PBO) and maybe found wanting will damn the others for years and vice versa.

Which of the myriad of manufacturers, of engine, chain, shackle, chart plotter, anchors etc could PBO choose.

Jonathan

Edit, We have been running a $600 5hp 2 stroke Chinese Titan outboard, used 2-4 days a week, for 4 years without major problem. Our supposedly environmentally friendly Honda 2hp 4 stroke, at $900, (made in the developed world by a 'reputable' company) had all its bolts, studs and valve cover corrode in the same time period making it unworkable and extortionately repairable (we dumped it). The Chinese one might collapse tomorrow but compared to the Honda its good value.

 

[Tranona]

Not sure that would be a good use of PBO money. Don't recall them ever specifically testing any make of inboard engine, other than commenting on them when testing a boat fitted with a particular engine. Anyway, how could you possibly carry out any meaningful test in the confines of a magazine article.

Lack of consumer experience is a barrier all new products have to overcome when entering an established market. Buyers have to make their own decision as to whether the lower cost offsets the lack of experience and reputation. If the buyer is risk averse he may well decide that the premium to buy the established product is worth it. Others may prefer the lower price and accept the risk that the product is inferior.

Your choice!

 

[yoda]

Perhaps something along the lines of the 'JD Power' survey would be an alternative approach, perhaps using the experience of those who have fitted new engines in the past 4 or 5 years and therefore able to comment on supply, support, reliability and performance.

Yoda

 

[Tranona]

Perhaps something along the lines of the 'JD Power' survey would be an alternative approach, perhaps using the experience of those who have fitted new engines in the past 4 or 5 years and therefore able to comment on supply, support, reliability and performance.

Yoda

Trouble is, that does not help when a product is new to the market and few units have been sold. There is more than enough feedback about the 4 or 5 major brands of small diesels to enable one to make a decision. Having made that decision twice the problem is more too much choice rather than too little. That is the dilemma for new entrants trying to find a space in the market so they tend to use price as a discriminator. This raises the question the OP is asking - is it worth the risk for the saving in initial cost? An unknown engine, unknown gearbox, new distributor and no track record for a few hundred pounds saving?

 

[J Neeves]

It seems to be more than a few hundred pounds saving, more like a good few thousand pounds. There might be a few other costs, undeclared. I suspect the engine to which the OP refers is 'standard' and possibly a copy of one already on the market - this would remove the issue of spares. Though after 2,000 hours on our Volvo the only spare, other than filters and impellor, has been the exhaust manifold and they can be made from stainless by a local engineer.

I think the OP raises an interesting question, which might be answered in other ways (as posted) but if the cost implications are correct a topic of great interest.

Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

It seems to be more than a few hundred pounds saving, more like a good few thousand pounds.

Not according to the current list prices - at least in the smaller hp range. Although based on Japanese designs, nothing is interchangeable as far as I can see and the gearboxes on offer are not used by any other manufacturer. Many engine replacements, for example replacing an old Volvo end up with replacement of the whole powertrain. Typically on a 20hp engine the material cost using one of the popular brands of engine would be around £5.5k including taxes. Using one of the engines under discussion might reduce this by £600 or a little over 10%. The difference is greater with higher hp engines where there could be a 20% saving or more.

 

[J Neeves]

I was simply looking at the OPs figures which seemed to suggest stg2,700 including gearbox and all electrics for a 32hp which looks quite a saving over your quote of stg5,500 for a 20hp model - but the OP does not mention taxes.

But I might have missed something, if not missed a lot!

Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

I was simply looking at the OPs figures which seemed to suggest stg2,700 including gearbox and all electrics for a 32hp which looks quite a saving over your quote of stg5,500 for a 20hp model - but the OP does not mention taxes.

But I might have missed something, if not missed a lot!

Jonathan

The £2700 was (I believe) an obsolete engine which was surplus stock when distributor arrangements changed - and was probably a good deal for the person who bought it, but that is not the kind of price that is now on offer. My £5.5k included all the ancillaries usually replaced along with the engine - making in the point that a saving on one component (the engine) reduces in significance in the overall cost. So, instead of £600 on £3600 it is £600 on £5500. So a buyer has to decide whether that saving is enough to offset buying a virtually unknown engine rather than one from an established brand.

 

[J Neeves]

I'd agree with the thrust of your posts, saving stg600 on stg5,500 simply does not merit much interest and I'd think even less interest from PBO.

Jonathan

 

[Jim@sea]

I was simply looking at the OPs figures which seemed to suggest stg2,700 including gearbox and all electrics for a 32hp which looks quite a saving over your quote of stg5,500 for a 20hp model - but the OP does not mention taxes.

But I might have missed something, if not missed a lot!

Jonathan

I believe the £2700 was what he paid including VAT and carriage up to Glasson Dock

 

[KellysEye]

I asked a number of repair shops in the Caribbean which engine they least had to repair and the yellow jersey went to Yanmar. I have no info on outboards but if anyone is thinking of buying a generator Northern lights have the yellow jersey with Westerbeke a close second.

 

[Jim@sea]

The £2700 was (I believe) an obsolete engine which was surplus stock when distributor arrangements changed - and was probably a good deal for the person who bought it, but that is not the kind of price that is now on offer. My £5.5k included all the ancillaries usually replaced along with the engine - making in the point that a saving on one component (the engine) reduces in significance in the overall cost. So, instead of £600 on £3600 it is £600 on £5500. So a buyer has to decide whether that saving is enough to offset buying a virtually unknown engine rather than one from an established brand.

I also rang the supplier for a price as although I believe I am on the verge of sorting out why my BMC Diesel keeps stopping (air in fuel supply) I want more information so I can make an immediate decision if it fails as I am not into having elderly engines overhauled and the engine sitting waiting for parts to be found which were stopped being made 20 years ago.
As an observation, (having bought and fitted loads of re-conditioned engines when I had a garage) if you put a replacement engine in a car it dosent increase the value, but put a NEW (Chinese or otherwise) engine in a boat and it increases the value, makes it more sailable and saleable.
Although the £2700 Chinese engine was an "Obsolete Engine" it was only obsolete to "them" as they had stopped importing them.
When I looked at it, clearly shown in the casting of the cylinder head was 2012.
We as consumers are deprived of choice by importers.
Forinstance why are we not able to buy Chinese 4x4's. The Chinese army wont use Toyotas or Land Rovers. Its all down to our importers.
I notice that Barrus who import Outboards are selling a range of Chinese Inboards called "Shanks"
What we need is this £2700 engine being imported by someone else who dosent consider a 2012 engine as obsolete.

PS If I had to spend £5500 I would and I am considering doing an engine change over the winter period where I have 6 months of boatless activity and spending money un-necessarily on boats is what I do.