A rant about nav gear......

[BarryH]

Ok so I'm turning into a grumpy old git. Its only because I realise that I'm getting old. BUT I am really miffed that different manufacturers use "standard" protocols for their equipment, you know that NMEA stuff and you need a degree in computer science to work it all out. I've never been a geek and never really been interested in that stuff.
I recently bought a new s/h tiller pilot. I read and re read the gumph that came with it. I noticed that it could "interface" with my Lowrance plotter. 2 wires out two wires in. How hard can it be?
I connected the wires, as per instructions and diagrams. Thats the easy bit. The bit you need a degree for is pushing button combinations to get the stupid things to "see" each other. The Lowrance isn't too bad. It has loads of buttons and importantly a "Menu" button. The Raymarine pilot has 5. +/- 1 +/- 10 and standby.
I follow the instruction and get nada. The instructions tell you to push combinations of buttons together. I do this and the stupid thing has an epiletic fit. What the software designers haven't taken into account is the human element. To make button contacts within a nano second isn't in the scope of human digits.
Even when I'm somewhere close and actually achieve it all I get is an error message. The tiller pilot doesn't recognise the plotter and the plotter decides that what its seeing is something as far from a tiller pilot as you can get.
Now in all honesty I blame myself to some extent. If I hadn't read in the massive manual that I could connect the 2 together I wouldn't have bothered. Lets face it the original tillerpilot, of 2 bungees and a bit of rope, was never "interfaced" with the plotter or the compass. Well not directly,I iused to look at the compass and nudge the thing with a foot. It worked, it was easy.
No, the manual says that they can be connected together so thats what they should do. So stubborn me is sitting trying to figure out this non logical method of trying to get them to be happy neighbours and bloody talk to each other. I am. in actual fact, thinking of launching both off the boat and buying a new compass and charts.....................that feels slightly better. Anyone got any ideas?

 

[Barnacle Bill]

The answer is windvane self steering, a compass, and paper charts.

Plus a hand-held GPS for emergencies.

Save your mental energy for keeping the yacht afloat and finding deck leaks.

 

[PhillM]

TBH you are making your own life harder than it needs to be.

So the bungees worked ok, but you wanted more stability. You have it. On a day like today, Id (in fact am about to) go sailing. Use the TP to steer the boat using it as standard.

There will be plenty of days when you are stuck in port and a mental challenge like this could be just the job for a day like that.

 

[BarryH]

"There will be plenty of days when you are stuck in port"....the boat is not even in the water yet!

 

[Kelpie]

What is achieved by interfacing a TP with the plotter? What am I missing out on?

 

[dylanwinter]

What is achieved by interfacing a TP with the plotter? What am I missing out on?

I agree

point the boat in the right general direction

then click the on button and let her keep sailing in that direction

make tea, look around, smile

 

[prv]

I do have a degree in computer science, but I never bothered interfacing Kindred Spirit's tillerpilot with anything, even though it could. I just didn't see the advantage. As far as I'm concerned, a tillerpilot's job is to steer a straight line on the heading I tell it. All it needs to do that is 12v. If the heading needs to be changed for whatever reason - if the wind shifts, or we're not quite making the point I wanted to - then I'm quite happy to adjust it myself with the + and - buttons.

Ariam's autopilot is interfaced with the instruments, because it's a Raymarine system where the control unit connects via Seatalk and so everything else is de facto connected as well. But I still haven't used any of the fancy modes for steering to a waypoint or at a certain angle to the wind.

Pete

 

[prv]

I agree

point the boat in the right general direction

then click the on button and let her keep sailing in that direction

make tea, look around, smile

We are in beatific agreement.

Pete

 

[LadyInBed]

What is achieved by interfacing a TP with the plotter? What am I missing out on?

My autohelm can display several different readout from the chart plotter.
The function that the autohelm will do that needs a chart plotter input is 'Track' which causes the boat to follow a COG that equals the CTW.
Useful when down wind sailing or when you are on final approach to your destination. ie you have crossed to Cherbourg and with two or three miles go you are a mile or two up current of the entrance, Track will take the boat to the entrance WP whilst you are preping for arrival (coffee, pee, mooring lines, fenders, etc).

 

[lustyd]

The only advantage I could see was the ability to have it tack while you're working the ropes. I really don't think I would trust this feature if I did have it and I purposefully bought the TP which only had power cables as a result

 

[BarryH]

The only advantage I could see was the ability to have it tack while you're working the ropes. I really don't think I would trust this feature if I did have it and I purposefully bought the TP which only had power cables as a result

My raymarine has a tack function, its yet another "press the buttons in certain sequence" senario, cant remember them at the mo. Anyway it seems that the Lowrance and the Raymarine talk the same language but cant understand what each other are saying. o putting the tillerpilot into "track" mode, it seems that the Lowrance is seeing anything but a tillerpilot.

If I'm honest I think I've given up hope in getting these 2 things to talk to each other. That and the cost of "extra" bits and pieces to make this thing work it just doesn't seem worth it. I've a mind to sell it and go back to the bungees and rope.

 

[Kelpie]

If I recall correctly, tacking on a Raymarine is just holding down both buttons (e.g. both stb buttons) together.
I'd be astonished if you decided to sell it just because you didn't get it hooked up to your plotter. I have the necessary bits and bobs aboard to do all that and have never even attempted it. It's not as if hooking it up to the plotter relieves you of the need to keep a watch or steer around the odd lobster pot. You have to do that anyway, so why not also tap in the course changes as you go?

 

[mjcoon]

The only advantage I could see was the ability to have it tack while you're working the ropes. I really don't think I would trust this feature if I did have it and I purposefully bought the TP which only had power cables as a result

The "autotack" function, for autohelms that have it, does not require integration with any other equipment. All it amounts to is adding (or subtracting) a fixed angle, such as 100 degrees, to the set course. So it just saves you pressing the ten-degree dodge button ten times. Big deal!

Mike.

 

[Uricanejack]

Just because something is technically possible it is not necessarily a good idea.

 

[GrahamM376]

Anyone got any ideas?

Our ST2000 tillerpilot of 1990's vintage would only interface with non-autohelm instruments using a seatalk to nmea converter.

 

[PeterR]

What is achieved by interfacing a TP with the plotter? What am I missing out on?

A Raymarine autohelm when interfaced with a plotter or basic GPS will enable you to sail to a waypoint. That means you can use the cross track error to keep away from hazards on route in the appropriate situations. A friend says his raymarine pilot holds its course better when used in this mode than when simply set to follow a course although I didn't notice that when I had one. You also get a lot more information displayed on the autopilot lcd.

Assuming you have got the NMEA wires connected correctly getting the instruments to talk to each other is done entirely from the GPS not at the autohelm. The buttons on that only allow you to utilise the functions not set up communication. To do that you need to find which NMEA protocol your pilot can use and what sentances it can understand. I have never done it with a Lawrence but I did it with a Garmin and discovering the correct combination from the manuals was beyond me. However, a call to the local dealer gave me the correct details after which it was a matter of seconds to set the right output on the GPS to get the system working. I imagine the same applies to a lawrence plotter

 

[DuncanHall]

The point of interfacing it is it keeps on track in particular where tides change. I sail in the Bristol Chanel where tides are large so it maters there. The usual problem encountered is that the NMEA sentences are not necessarily comparable between manufactures. For example the NMEA wind sentence required by the tiller pilot is not outputted by my Garmin plotter.

It's a pity tiller pilots don't use NMEA 2000 as communications would be much better.

I also use it to tack single handed. It's fairly intuitive. Press the two numerical put tons on the side you want to tack to. However that's does not require it to be interfaced.

 

[Sandy]

Ok so I'm turning into a grumpy old git. Its only because I realise that I'm getting old. BUT I am really miffed that different manufacturers use "standard" protocols for their equipment, you know that NMEA stuff and you need a degree in computer science to work it all out.

Ah you are missing their point, you need to buy ALL of their kit - it all talks to each other.

I am a cynical old git, but each navigational aid on Camelia is self contained, keeps my little grey cells busy before I go gaga.

 

[Iliade]

I have a tp1000+ which worked instantly and faultlessly with my Garmin GPS. I suggest checking you have connected the correct wires, i.e., NMEA not Seatalk, and that the GPS is set to output NMEA and specifically the correct version of NMEA.


However... When all is said and done, the pilot wanders badly when first engaging tp mode, though it does maintain a low CTE after a few minutes. Also, it will not automatically advance the waypoint so you have to push a button to accept it. This precludes setting a sinuous route down, say, a river for while you are hoisting sail.