A racer's conscience

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dom

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A racer\'s conscience

The “Spilling the wind with a cabin top mainsheet” post and myself from a race background made me think. I will put my hand up and admit to behaving inappropriately to other water users in the heat of the moment. Reading this forum made me understand and to discuss with other racers how much hurt we cause other crews by acting like this. To add insult to injury we have nobody to apologize to later and have therefore ruined their day. We may talk to each other like that but civilized crews don’t.

Why I mention this now is that if racing types deride others as “sailing with rags” or in “floating caravans” then all cruisers are entitled to think we are all a bunch of [--word removed--] wits. The truth is we are not that bad - at least off the water - but some of us should perhaps attend an anger management course!

Finally a not very well kept secret. Should a racer sailing a carboned up fully fledged racing machine collide with even a Bavaria we would most likely disintegrate on the spot. We wouldn’t dare!
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Not aimed at anyone in particular but you might want to consider that a bunch who sadly behaves badly some of the time should at the very least be on their best behavior the rest of the time!
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Well, you quoted two things I said in that thread......

I've been a racer for about 5 years, and a cruiser for my whole life. So I guess you could almost say this is my specialist subject.

To be honest, yes there are racers who give others a bad name, they're normally at the back of the fleet and looking to blame anyone but them for their position. On behalf of racers everywhere i appologise if you've ever met one of those jackasses.

However, from the other side of the fence as a racer (and I realise that admitting to being a racer around here has a similar effect to admitting to a heroin addiction) there are an awful lot more cruisers giving cruisers a bad name.
It's one thing to have your race screwed up by a cruiser who's well within his rights (and if you're any good that shouldn't happen) but it's another to get totally stuffed by a cruiser who should have given way.
Recently I sailed a race in about 25 knots where about a minute after the start, and with 30 boats on starboard coming off the line, a cruiser came ambling across on port and caused absolute mayhem with racers crash tacking everywhere. I didn't hear any foul language being used towards the cruiser and the support rib did go and have a word once the fleet had extracted itself from the potentially very dangerous situation.
Recently this seems to be becoming more and more common. There does seem to be an attitude that racers have to keep out of everyone elses way.
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

[ QUOTE ]
Recently I sailed a race in about 25 knots where about a minute after the start, and with 30 boats on starboard coming off the line, a cruiser came ambling across on port and caused absolute mayhem with racers crash tacking everywhere. I didn't hear any foul language being used towards the cruiser

[/ QUOTE ]Well that must be a near unique situation.... i've raced on and off, all my life... on occasions quite seriously, and EVERY racing fleet i've ever been near would have had people hollering and cussing at the cruiser at the top of their voices.... sorry I just don't recognise the environment you describe...
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Not saying it didn't happen, just that i didn't hear it. To be honest it was an extremely scary couple of minutes, when we crash tacked two crew ended up waist deep in water when they didn't get off the rail fast enough, and we were inches clear of other boats in 25 knots of wind. Everyone on our boat was either too scared or too busy to do any yelling.
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

This is after all a cruising forum .

most of us have probably raced at some level or another but now choose the gentler more laid back style of sailing .

having said that how many cruising skippers can sit back and allow a similar yacht to overtake without at least tweeking the sheets a bit? Even cruisers grow horns now and then. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Dom,
you're right enough, some posts get quite vitriolic. It is also curious just how many race winners there are out there.......

There seem to be a few different schools of thought/forumites out there:

The crusty old salts
"leave the rig alone and get on with the tea drinking/astronavigation/let me be a "real" seaman school where any tweaking is regarded as dangerous and any designs post 1802 are unreliable and dangerous"

The egoists
"never mind the reality, this is what is on my boat, ergo this is what is best"

The curious
"oh I never thought of that, how does it work"

The Racers
"My 1/4 ton winning harken equipped converted to IMS then IRC blast-the-cans-fandango mark VI did it this way and so this is fast & good"

The technocrats
"take yer multimeter and measure the induced capacitance across the bi-polars of the galvanitically isolated stuffing boax and hit it with a 3ld lump hammer 'an ye'll be all right son"

and no doubt many other types.

S'pose that's what makes these forums a little bit of fun, a source of information and help and, for some really sad **c*ers, a way of life!

Don't take it too seriously (I'm pretty sure you don't) and enjoy the fact that some folks get really wound up by things like using a traveller correctly.
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

I'd agree with that!

What gets me is the very superior attitude that the "exclusinve" cruisers have on these forums. As if one has to be deranged to consider racing fun. The smugness is smothering.

What I try and get across in some of the posts I make is that there is an awful lot cruisers can learn from racers. My own sailing learning curve really took off after I started racing. In the last 4 or 5 years I've learned much more than in the previous 15!
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

[ QUOTE ]
Well, you quoted two things I said in that thread......

I've been a racer for about 5 years, and a cruiser for my whole life. So I guess you could almost say this is my specialist subject.

To be honest, yes there are racers who give others a bad name, they're normally at the back of the fleet and looking to blame anyone but them for their position. On behalf of racers everywhere i appologise if you've ever met one of those jackasses.

However, from the other side of the fence as a racer (and I realise that admitting to being a racer around here has a similar effect to admitting to a heroin addiction) there are an awful lot more cruisers giving cruisers a bad name.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well there are some real prats in both camps in reality.

But why the assumption that a cruising boat knows nothing about racing? As an illustration I would use one of our club members who until his first baby arrived sailed a one-off ultra hot Class 1 machine, doing all the offshore races including Fastnets. Right now he sails a Hunter Legend, I wonder what snide comments (some) racers make about THAT dumpy old cruiser if they get close to him? In my case I raced dinghies very competitively and still have the trophies, I then raced cruisers and have a few trophies from that too, but at local club level. Having a 'cruiser' doesn't make me a numpty nor should it be assumed I don't like getting the ultimate best out of whatever I'm sailing. I don't fly 'rags' by the way, we have a tri-radial genoa in Spectra reinforced woven Dacron and a fully battened tri-radial mainsail in the same (Hydranet) cloth. OK we don't fly black fantastics or see throughs but they are good and they are set up with all that we need to get the best out of them. Unlike some I have to PAY for the boat, it's maintenance, mooring and sails and sail longevity is important! Likewise I don't have 8 spare gorillas on steroids to do the sail handling or help with the winter maintenance, I just have a 7 stone SWMBO with attitude!

I will avoid getting in the way of racers whenever I can, but in the ultimate it is Colregs not race regs that apply and I can SHOUT obscenities with the best of them"! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Flaming ,reading some of your stuff Id say that cruisers dont have the monopoly on smugness.

coming on a cruising forum and slating off cruising skippers is a bit like walking into a bar in Cork then complaining theres too many Irish in it.

There must be racing forums where you can compare the latest weightsaving toothbrushes etc and slag of cruisers to your hearts content.
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Wasn't it Maurice Griffiths that said that if a dozen boats with different crews set off at the same time round a specified course, it stands to reason that they will all come back at different times, so who cares what the order is?

Or something very similar. Always seemed a sensible approach to racing to me, and seriously improves the social side as well, by removing all the stress and back-biting.
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

I think you make a very valid point! I am what you would call one of the "Old Salt Brigade" /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ie. trim the boat, set the wind vane, go and make a cuppa, lie back and enjoy the day.

That doesn't mean that my way is the best way, just suits me is all, but racing does have a very useful spin off for all, in that I think that pushing the envelope as some of these folks do, in turn leads to new and interesting products that serve us all in the end. Also, I would agree that the average racers ability at close quarters boat handling, is usually a lot better than mine! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Mind you, I am a bit of an anti social old git when at sea, if I see another boat, and I think that I might have to "interact" with it, I usually sod off out of the way! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Like I said, I'm not just a racer. I'm not slagging anyone off, least of all a comunity of which I'm a member!
I'm merely trying to make the point that racing sailors are not the fire breathing ogres they are portrayed as on these forums!
If you went to a racing forum you would find very little slagging off of cruisers, most people who start threads like that quite rightly get it pointed out that everyone has a right to the sea, and it's usualy your fault for not looking up the course if you get held up.
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Think you are missing the point that flaming is making.
There is a spectrum of ability in both racing and cruising camps. Getting the best out of your boat should be common ground. I also have a heavily race-based background but also learn from and enjoy all aspects of cruising. What I object to is a holier than thou attitude in either camp or a disregard for the efficient sail handling and control in the name of "safety". Proper sail shape allows beating off a lee shore and control in gusty/windy conditions and that is where racing techinques really help all of us.
There is enough aggro in the world without slagging each other off, and I don't believe that this is what Flaming was doing.
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Don' t personalize this. The truth is racers including me sometimes behave like tossers. We then never say sorry because the offended party doesn't appear at the bar for a laugh afterwards. Of course it is not just you though I bet it is you too sometimes. What's the idea? They tell us pretty places to visit and heaps and heaps of other things but we sneer because someone does not have 3DL sails. Come on! BTW we sail with blown Spectra sails when practicing. Does that make me hopeless?
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

Amen to that says I! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: A racer\'s conscience

[ QUOTE ]
think you'll find there are quite a few more racing helms than you appreciate!


[/ QUOTE ]

Im well aware that there are lots of racing skippers/crew here.Including one or two highly accomplished ones that I know of.

Probably the majority of us have raced at some level over the years,but dont choose to ram it down everyones throat on a forum that was set up to discuss cruising issues.
 
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