A question for you

powerskipper

powerskipper

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If you were trying a lee shore entry into a harbour in a force 7, would you motor sail [ ie leave your sail up and use your engine,]?
OR
would you take the sail down and just use your engine for entry?
PS your in a 40 ish sailing boat /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
F7 isn't too bad provided you don't have a vicious ebb fighting against it, so in under a scrap of sail with the engine on tickover and ready. No way would I drop the sail completely until safely through

Before I'm shot down I wouldn't attempt it in a narrow entrance with rocks either side
 
OK , no ebb tides.

Now I may be shot down but it will be fun anyway ,

but is a sail boat not meant to sail, its stability is build around the sail etc, engines on sail boats are more a axillary than a mean of main propulsion as they would not have the power to push a sail boat if any kind of head tide or strong wind, so leaving the sail up most of the time is a requirement. unless a cross wind on entry into a narrow area .
Have I got this right or not.
 
More or less correct, except that a cross wind puts us on the most powerful point of sail (a broad reach) with lots of control so would be welcome even on narrow entrance. Amount of sail set will control speed.

Also, a cross wind wouldn't upset the ebb too much

Edit - oops, I meant a beam reach not broad reach
 
I'd think one would be better under sail in terms of getting through the swell, 'tho there's less control over slowing down if needed (hence maybe better without mainsail just under jib, but still not so easy to slow down). Apart from anything else the sail help to reduce the tendency to roll. On the other hand one has to be careful about charging into a tight harbour in a F7 under sail, especially if the entrance is narrow/with a blind corner inside. So most people would probably motor in anyway. If things are marginal then one should probably not be entering in the first place.
 
No, wouldn't dream of using engine as brake as we could let fly the sheets to slow down quick. With wind from the side, we can easily turn towrds or away from it - ie alter course without worry, lots of control. We'd aim for the upwind side of the entrance as it's easier to bear away from the wind, and the other side is lee=dangerous.

Engine is back up in case we need a burst or bottle out

Experience? Well, you're not going to enjoy it first time necessarily, but you just might in good hands
 
INHM its an impossible question. Sails up steady the boat a bit, but I would need to know what room there is in the harbour. How much room to turn and how much lee and shelter am I likely to find once inside.

You might choose to run down under small jib only with engine on tickover, or with a bit of main and ready to let go some jib, again with engine in tickover etc etc.

Engine on as an insurance is not a bad idea.

The boat under sail can be controlled and can be a lot more comfortable than yacht with no sails, so long as an appropriate sailplan is chosen. Give us some specific details, harbour plans and wind directions etc, and perhaps I might suggest some possible plans.

Bear in mind that there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

Or as they say in the West Indies, if your plan to survive the hurricane left you aliove, it was a good plan.
 
Having done motorboating too, I don't think my answer would be any different.

I wouldn't attempt entering an unknown harbour. However, I would have a pilot guide and chart if I was anywhere near contemplating this fictitious harbour. If I didn't I wouldn't even think about it. So, if it's deep and wide and I can see where I'm going, no problem. If there's a bar, think twice. Enough depth and no ebb to cause broaching, in we go. Or not.

If it's a small place with no lee once in, no go.

That's why i mentioned Brighton. Smallish entrance but guaranteed calm once you are in. Did that in 7ish with storm sails up and engine on because the sails guarantee more or less constant drive when the displacement hull is at the mercy of following waves and the prop is useless in the water rolling down the front face of a following wave. As is the rudder, so having sails gives a bit more directional stability.
 
Depends on exact details and circumstances but in principal yes. And I've done it last year, coming in 25-30kts stern wind and a 3m swell rolling straight in off the open pacific into Tutukaka harbour (anyone who knows this entrance will confirm this would have been a sporty exercise).

Although harbour had narrow entrance (aprox. 100m with awash rocks on either side and it was a new port for me (all negatives), on the plus side it was broad daylight and I had just seen a large local motor vessel gone in through the same entrance. Plus the conditions were entirely as forecast and the entry was planned - having received advice from locals that it could be done with the right prep.

So how did I do it?

No main. 50% jib unfurled. Engine on mid-revs therefore increasing water flow over rudder. Boatspeed varying between 6-9kts region depending on surfing motion and key period of excitement lasted about 2 mins.

Therefore my motive power was combo of sail and engine with objective of making best safe speed with max control. If, for some reason, I had to abort I could have spun around 180 degrees very quickly, furled the sail and maxxed the engine to make slow progress back out again.

I also had anchor ready as Plan C altho in those conditions it really would have been last resort to use if things had gone fully bad.
 
It might be worth adding that some harbours are shut if there is a dangerous swell or onshore wind causing waves to build up.

It's worth checking this first. There was one English couple I met who were found very helpfull police when they went to tie up and had their passports taken, boat impounded for several days. Potentially could have lost their boat to the police not the waves.

Many yachts will happily motor into large seas under engine, most yachts not really having an auxhilary engine more of motor sailors really. My 40' had 43hp which was plenty. 30' racing yacht had 12hp and silly folding prop so it would struggle against a steep sea and a F5.
 
And one more point you can stop a yacht quickly in a F7 as long as you have romm to turn it into wind, with flogging sails it will stop in a few meters. Backed jib it will be almost instant, but you'll spill your G&T.
 
If I knew the harbour:
Engine On and into gear
Round up Head to Wind
Drop Main
Turn back onto course and unfurl Genoa to setting 1 (Small jib)
Out of gear but leave engine ticking over.

If I don't know the harbour
have a read of the pilot
same routine.

If I do or don't know the harbour but don't like the sound of it or the sight of it
Have a think about alternatives.
 
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