A question for you keen knotting types...

[sarabande]

I made a mess of towing a tree out of the river yesterday, and jammed a good length of 20mm 3strand nylon in a right horlicks.

Here's a pic of the Landrover (non-standard) bumper with a couple of strong towing eyes.

I'd like suggestions please for the best way to attach the tow rope to the bumper. AND to be able to release it easily afterwards. The strain on the rope and knots was very high, with it at almost full elastic extension .

What does NOT work is a bowline, or a round turn and several half hitches. The side pieces of the bumper cannot be used as they are water-cut edges, and will act as a knife.

Suggestions about buying a winch, or welding a cleat on to the bumper have alreadsy been made.


thanks

 

[billyfish]

A instant pull release double reefed bowline.

 

[Capt Popeye]

I made a mess of towing a tree out of the river yesterday, and jammed a good length of 20mm 3strand nylon in a right horlicks.

Here's a pic of the Landrover (non-standard) bumper with a couple of strong towing eyes.

I'd like suggestions please for the best way to attach the tow rope to the bumper. AND to be able to release it easily afterwards. The strain on the rope and knots was very high, with it at almost full elastic extension .

What does NOT work is a bowline, and a round turn and several half hitches. The side pieces of the bumper cannot be used as they are water-cut edges, and will act as a knife.

Suggestions about buying a winch, or welding a cleat on to the bumper have alreadsy been made.


thanks

Well my experience says that to secure (not tie) a rope thats gona be under strain , best to see if the 3 turns then fold over the end and hold it : similar to a 'lightermans, hitch' thats used on a Bollard : Never i say make the turns into a knot as one risks loosing fingers as well as the rope length

 

[fredrussell]

Eye splice in tow rope end. Pass loop through towing eye, put metal bar through loop. Bar stops loop pulling back through towing eye under load. Or just attach eye splice loop to towing eye with a big shackle.

 

[Refueler]

Eye splice in tow rope end. Pass loop through towing eye, put metal bar through loop. Bar stops loop pulling back through towing eye under load.

Yep ....

Its funny actually - because for such jobs I prefer a normal ball hitch. Then there is no need for a knot ....

Basically you bring rope to the ball and pass it round and under the standing rope .. round the rope and pass opposite way back round the ball ... over rope and then back round ball again .... keep repeating till ball and bar are reasonably full. That can now take a massive strain without letting go.

To undo is simply take of the turns ....

For many hitches - the 'knot' part is actually controlling the loose end .....

A variation can be done on the bar and eye of that LR .... pass rope end through .... make sure you have plenty through ... wrap fig 8 turns on the bar going each side of the rope .... make sure they lay flat - so that when bar is pulled against eye - they are trapped and eye / bar grips them.
No knot to tighten up and fail to undo.

 

[superheat6k]

If you want a releasable hitch and memory on more obscure hitches is a bit light then a figure of eight in the standing part a foot or so from the towing eye, then pass the round turn as normal around the towing eye, but place the two half hitches against the side of the figure of eight. This prevents the half hitches piling up on the narrow tow point, and this can also be undone under moderate load.

 

[roaringgirl]

Why not round turn and 2 half hitches?

 

[penfold]

An eye splice and a shackle at one end and fasten to the tree with a timber hitch.

 

[Tillana]

I use these loops on my landrover to pull trees over regularly. I use soft shackles to attach them or tie a sheepshank and use a bar through the loop as described above. Any other knots just seem to tighten and are a struggle to untie.

 

[MisterBaxter]

An eye splice and a shackle at one end and fasten to the tree with a timber hitch.

Yes - if I was going to be doing that regularly I'd put an eye splice on around a steel thimble, and shackle it to one of the towing eyes. If you wanted to spread the load between the two eyes you could use two chain legs and two more shackles.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Yep ....

Its funny actually - because for such jobs I prefer a normal ball hitch. Then there is no need for a knot ....

Basically you bring rope to the ball and pass it round and under the standing rope .. round the rope and pass opposite way back round the ball ... over rope and then back round ball again .... keep repeating till ball and bar are reasonably full. That can now take a massive strain without letting go.

To undo is simply take of the turns ....

For many hitches - the 'knot' part is actually controlling the loose end .....

A variation can be done on the bar and eye of that LR .... pass rope end through .... make sure you have plenty through ... wrap fig 8 turns on the bar going each side of the rope .... make sure they lay flat - so that when bar is pulled against eye - they are trapped and eye / bar grips them.
No knot to tighten up and fail to undo.

I believe you’ve described a ‘tugboat hitch’
Also known as a ‘Lightermans’s Hitch’.

 

[William_H]

I imagine Sarabande would tie the rope to the branch or whatever then wish to attach the rope to the LR ring at a point on the rope to take up slack. ie not at the end of the rope. Hence eyesplice and shackle not so suitable. Multiple turns through the ring would help. What might be useful is a very large shackle on the LR ring which enables the rope to be wrapped around many times each wrap reducing the load on the free end. Then half hitches might be ok to undo on completion. ol'will

 

[MisterBaxter]

That's a good point, Will. How about a big shackle on one towing eye; take three turns around that to give the necessary friction, then tie it off on the other eye?

 

[Mister E]

Put a large screwdriver or 2 through the knot where it bights. Remove the screwdrivers then undo the knot.

 

[sarabande]

Why not round turn and 2 half hitches?

It jams solid, and I mean solid under the serious load I was putting on it. I think it's because the towing D bars are as small or if not smaller in diameter than the rope. IIRC my Manual of Seamanship has advice about the relative diameter of the tow rope and bollard or cleat. Certainly the instructors went on and on about finding the right diameter eye for a steel rope.

And yes, ol'Will has got the method right: rope attached first to the tree trunk THEN to the Landrover, and pull tight as much as poss before tying the knot.

I think the best way forward is to add a small bollard type unit to the centre of the bumper, though I've been yarning for a front ball hitch for some time. It would make parking my fleet of trailers so much easier,



and also pulling visitor cars out of our summer Exmoor mud. For that I have a long 7tonne lifting strop with eyes at each end and big shackles in the car box.

 

[Tillana]

It jams solid, and I mean solid under the serious load I was putting on it. I think it's because the towing D bars are as small or if not smaller in diameter than the rope. IIRC my Manual of Seamanship has advice about the relative diameter of the tow rope and bollard or cleat. Certainly the instructors went on and on about finding the right diameter eye for a steel rope.

And yes, ol'Will has got the method right: rope attached first to the tree trunk THEN to the Landrover, and pull tight as much as poss before tying the knot.

I think the best way forward is to add a small bollard type unit to the centre of the bumper, though I've been yarning for a front ball hitch for some time. It would make parking my fleet of trailers so much easier,



and also pulling visitor cars out of our summer Exmoor mud. For that I have a long 7tonne lifting strop with eyes at each end and big shackles in the car box.

If you fit a towball to the bumper, fit
one with a pin to allow the sheepshank or other knot to be removed easier.

 

[flaming]

Eyesplice in the tow rope and a couple of big soft shackles to the rings.

 

[Porthandbuoy]

A Lighterman's Hitch. Don't know what you'd tie it around though. Got a towball on the back of your vehicle?

Lighterman’s Hitch.

 

[johnalison]

Use old rope and cut it off after use.

 

[sarabande]

I am grateful for all the suggestions.

The problem with having an eye splice at one end is that it limits the ability to adjust the rope as tightly as possible against the tree before one fixes the rope to the bumper. In this case I decided to tow facing the tree, so that I could see what was happening.

Pic is of the tow rope under tension with a bight round the trunk, and a bowline. The tow tension was so great that the bowline became almost translucent, 'coalesced' and had to be cut free.

My thoughts are now towards a ball hitch and a bollard or cleat on the front bumper. But the spirit of Ashley and his book of knots still makes me look for a knot, bend or hitch that can take high tension, with 3 strand nylon (or indeed any other rope) and STILL undo easily when towing is finished.