A question for the stinkies

seastoke said:
Black sheep are you upset by being called raggies , yottie sounds pompous. What would you like to be called as a group.
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Actually no, I'm not. I'm quite fine with being a raggy. I don't like stinky for motor boaters - that does seem less polite. I only used it in my thread title to give full symmetry with your thread; I'd normally avoid the term. I hope it didn't cause you offence.
 
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MartynG said:
What difference should it make whether the three boats ahead are yots or mobo's . The boats ahead are motoring so they are in fact slow motorboats.

If overtaking is required in a narrow channel the yots are going very slow then overtake slowly - maybe 1knot faster than the yots.
I do so often when overtaking slow boats on the river .

The situation doesn't sound suitable for 20 knots ?

But if the channel is wide and the overtaking boat can be far enough away, say 50 metres , an overtake at 20 knots should be acceptable as I believe waves do not bother yots too much if they are decent sized yots which I assume they are as they have engines.
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From a colregs perspective you're dead right - the yachts are motorboats. I mentioned them being yachts for two reasons - (1) this thread is a deliberate echo of Seastoke's thread so I duplicated that info, and (2) it might be relevant for non-colregs reasons, eg perception of susceptibility to wash

I like your solution of overtaking slowly, especially as you prefaced it with "if overtaking is required" - too many other answers assume that the boats must be overtaken.

I won't comment on your 50 metres / 20 knots point as I don't know what wash that would produce. But I do question your assumption that any yacht with an engine is "decent sized". One of my "yachts" is an 18 foot drop keeler with an outboard. I'm not sure how many would describe it as "decent sized".
 
Black Sheep said:
Actually no, I'm not. I'm quite fine with being a raggy. I don't like stinky for motor boaters - that does seem less polite. I only used it in my thread title to give full symmetry with your thread; I'd normally avoid the term. I hope it didn't cause you offence.
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I take you must be racist as the term I used , if you use is you might think iam being rude.
 
It does not matter whether the boats in question are yachts under sail or yachts motoring. Overtaking boat has to keep clear. However, one needs to understand that the passage of yachts may be determined by wind direction. Check to see if the yachts are flying an inverted cone to indicate motor sailing. ( Invariably they will not have bothered, so you may have to assume under sail) If you have a need to pass, & it is safe to do so then pass at a safe speed with them on your stbd side . Give due consideration to wash on the other boats. Do so in a reasonably quick time so as to avoid limiting their ability to manouver, should other vessels approach from other directions.
If the other vessels are too far over in the channel to pass on the correct side then consider passing on the other side but there are sound signals ( i forget which) to indicate this. Normally it would be obvious.
Study the contours of the channel & give consideration to possible changes in direction that the other vessels may have to make due to draft. For that reason give as much room as possible & do not put yourself in a stuation whereby you have to make sudden unexpected course changes that might cause issues with the other vessels.
It is really a matter of common sense. If there are issues that arise during the manouver then stopping might be the best option. On the other hand, open the throttle & get the hell out of the way. :eek:
 
Daydream believer said:
It does not matter whether the boats in question are yachts under sail or yachts motoring..... However, one needs to understand that the passage of yachts may be determined by wind direction.
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Yes it does matter a great deal
If motoring would expect the yachts to follow a course , maybe not straight but following the channel - no zig zagging
A yacht with sails down is less troubled by wind (and waves ) than a motorboat of similar length .
 
MartynG said:
Yes it does matter a great deal
If motoring would expect the yachts to follow a course , maybe not straight but following the channel - no zig zagging
A yacht with sails down is less troubled by wind (and waves ) than a motorboat of similar length .
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You missed out part of my post & totally altered its meaning. I said :-
"It does not matter whether the boats in question are yachts under sail or yachts motoring. Overtaking boat has to keep clear
I was referring to rights of a yacht or a MOBO when being overtaken.
Then I said:-
"However, one needs to understand that the passage of yachts may be determined by wind direction."
I think that is a pretty obvious observation to make, don't you?
I did not immediately indicate " Yachts under power" I suggested checking first
At that stage I did not mention yachts with sails down- which become motor boats
 
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Daydream believer said:
You missed out part of my post & totally altered its meaning. I said :-
"It does not matter whether the boats in question are yachts under sail or yachts motoring. Overtaking boat has to keep clear
I was referring to rights of a yacht or a MOBO when being overtaken.
Then I said:-
"However, one needs to understand that the passage of yachts may be determined by wind direction."
I think that is a pretty obvious observation to make, don't you?
I did not immediately indicate " Yachts under power" I suggested checking first
At that stage I did not mention yachts with sails down- which become motor boats
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To be sure, as soon as a sailing boat is running it's engine and the prop is engaged it is considered a power boat even if it has all sail set. To satisfy the requirements of the colregs the boat thus propelled needs to set a down ward pointing cone in the forward part of the vessel.
You are perfectly correct in that it is completely irrelevant how the vessel being overtaken is propelled. As the "stand on " vessel it may not suddenly alter it's course either, such as in a sailing vessel suddenly deciding to tack.
 
Laminar Flow said:
. As the "stand on " vessel it may not suddenly alter it's course either, such as in a sailing vessel suddenly deciding to tack.
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Not totally true ie.
If a sailing vessel is on a tack heading into shallow water then it is constrained by its draft & would need to tack.
It is just common sense & we are talking about a MOBO ( which one would expect to have a degree of manouverability) passing a line of yachts that my/maynot be under power.
Any sensible MOBO helm needs to take such points into consideration when planning his actions.
This is not quite the same as a yacht, at sea, changing course in front of a ship , with limited ability to manouver.
 
Constrained by draft is handled differently than many think in the IRPCS. Firstly the definition only encompasses power driven vessels (Rule 3h). Secondly it doesn’t change the fundamental responsibilities between vessels. Rule 18 actually places the burden of navigation responsibility on the CBD vessel. The responsibility for other vessels is to avoid impeding passage if the circumstances of the case admit (and the vessel is displaying a cylinder iaw Rule 28. This rule, on displaying a cylinder, is a ‘may’ rule not a ‘shall’ rule).

However, as Daydream Believer and others have said the best Rule (and certainly the one to apply if in doubt) is common sense. The IRPCS version of this is Rule 8f, which basically determines that no collision is likely to be so clear cut as to apportion blame fully to one side alone.
 
I can't be bothered to look up the particular rules, but Colregs are full of expressions like "if the circumstances permit"; if a yacht under sail needs to tack at the edge of a channel, the circumstances clearly don't permit. However, the OP referred to the yachts as being under power, so there's no excuse for not following the starboard side of the channel and allowing the mobo to overtake, leaving them to starboard.

As for how, we've all met the idiot who thinks it's fun to blast past, and the other one who "considerately" drops just off the plane to go past you 10m away. Personally, I'd like you moboers to keep a good distance and stay on the plane. If you have to come close to get past, then slow down to a speed where your wake won't throw my dinner off the stove or tip the crew who's on deck sorting out lines and fenders over the side.

OTOH, if you're the mobo that went past us a few years back, whose rather lovely girlfriend was wearing no more than a thong and big smile, come as close as you like :D
 
I thought a stinkies thread would be all about heads and holding tanks.

I can see that steep short wakes are highly objectionable to crews of moored yachts, and regarded as very inconsiderate...

...but much less bother when the overtaken yacht is herself under way. Admittedly it's a nuisance if the wind on the sails isn't strong enough to steady the yacht, but under power or under sail in a breeze, how much worse is it than being at sea?
 
dancrane said:
under power or under sail in a breeze, how much worse is it than being at sea?
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For me, the issue is that the wake often comes from an entirely direction than the waves and, in a calm sea, may be entirely unexpected, with its approach unnoticed by crew working below or at the mast. Yes, you're right, everyone, especially the helm, at least, should be aware of what's going on around him, and warn everyone else, but helms get distracted when things are happening on deck too.
 
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