A question for blue water cruisers

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mocruising

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We have completed kitting out for this winter and purchased storm jib for the cutter stay and a trisail along with 5 new cruising sails. I am trying to put together a budget for next winter prior to the 2007 Blue Water Rally. We have included the cost of replacing the standing and all running rigging as the boat will be approaching the ten year mark.

My question being there are some pretty expensive sea anchors/ parachute drogues on the market, how many people actually carry them and is there any gear some of you experienced cruisers would not be without. (We have gen. set, water maker, autopilot, davits, dingy,SSB,Mini M, VHF,EPIRB,liferaft,radar.) Is there a book that impressed any of you world girdlers, that you would recommend.
 
I have a prachute sea anchor 15' - I have got it out 3 times ready to deploy but King Neputune got so frightend by it he decreased the wind each time!

Sounds as if you have everything - paperbacks are important on long passages and Cmap is wonderful for the pilotage bits - someone will give you that I expect..
 
Have you had a look at our website for blue water cruisers? We provide a free website that includes loads of information for those who are either in the planning stages, or for those who are already cruising.

You can link to our site here http://www.onpassage.com/

The question about sea anchors and drogues will be addressed on our site a little later this year.

Good cruising

Rod
 
i carry a 15' para anchor but it's never been in the water to date. i keep telling myself i should give it a try.

for a few tips on tropical equipment, see my website. it's only one opinion but may be of use.

don't skimp on the dinghy!
 
We have a home-made series drogue made according to the USCG design. It still was not cheap, but less than half the price of a made-up one. I went for it after being impressed by film of tank tests at the Woolfson Unit, where one held a model yacht steady in breaking waves twice the size of those that broached and rolled the same model without. Have doubts about the para-anchor, despite the Pardey's enthusiasm; and, from my one experience in open ocean in a storm, about my ability to deploy one. Unfortunately it is not really possible to test these things effectively in anything less than a gale in open sea, which none of us go looking for, so they have to be taken on trust.

Heavy Weather Sailing is the obvious book. Whatever heavy weather strategy you decide on, the important thing is to think it all through beforehand because, believe me, it's not something that can be 'played by ear'.
 
Like everything else it depends on the boat? How well does she hove to? if the answers is she lays 80deg of the wind then you have a more convicing argument than if she sits steady at 45. Also how does she run off, much less stress on the rudder and if you dont have a large open cockpit worth thinking of. I have a home built 4ft drogue that will keep speed down low to the point at which she handles safely or the warp breaks and cost abot £15. Also whats your bow attachment, can you rig something strong enough under storm conditions, no point in attaching a 15ft drogue to a standard mooring cleat, 6" through bolted samson post possibly but would still look at backing it up, if you wouldn't lift the boat by it it ain't strong enough, falling off a wave on a para anchor is going to be like tieing the boat to a high wall and chucking her off. That would be my main reservation, the stress on the boat is enormous and not what the hull/deck was buit to take all the loads are in the wrong direction, boats are designed for crushing loads not shear or pull.
This is what I thought through when preparing the boat but lukly never got near needing any of it (althoug have use drouge when boat was shearing between wind and tide at anchore - settled her down a treat!) and it also doubles as a sea anchor for the dingy/liferaft.
 
Series drogue seems to me to be the better of the two options, primarily caus it is safer and easier to deploy, and a lot easier to recover - it is also a lot cheaper

BUT the deck strongpoints that you use to fasten the thing to the boat will really need to be VERY strong, otherewise you end up with a big hole that will let the water in!
 
I also have a home-made Jordan series drogue onboard, but fortunately for me, in 13 years of full time navigation, I didn't have once the occasion to use it..

Now there is a much better world wide weather forecast coverage and if you are a "prudent" sailor, you have a good chance to avoid bad weather..
 
I just can't help wondering why people go on such adventures if they are so aprehensive. We see it in the boaty press, here and lots of other places. Admitted, the sea is not to be taken lightly, but with modern comms and the knowledge we have of weather patterns, should we really be carrying on like Christopher Columbus preparing his little fleet?

Thanks to those who contributed the weather sites really good and very useful - so I suppose, thanks to the first poster
 
[ QUOTE ]
I just can't help wondering why people go on such adventures if they are so aprehensive. We see it in the boaty press, here and lots of other places. Admitted, the sea is not to be taken lightly, but with modern comms and the knowledge we have of weather patterns, should we really be carrying on like Christopher Columbus preparing his little fleet?

[/ QUOTE ]It would be foolish to suppose that modern comms and weather knowledge mean it is unnecessary to prepare for bad conditions, even though few blue water cruisers will ever face a F10+. People are attempting ocean cruising in more lightly constructed yachts than hitherto, so the margin at which they must take defensive action is actually lowering. Modern weather information does indeed help a lot, but mainly in providing warning.

If you sail entirely within two days reach of a secure port, within 200 miles of land, it should always be possible to avoid really bad weather. But going further out, the possibility has to be faced. North Atlantic storms for example cover thousands of miles and even with the best of information, sailing out the way of them is not an option.

There is a school of thought that modern comms mean if things get nasty, Air-Sea rescue services can always be summoned to bail you out. This is a poor substitute for self-reliance. Also an extremely expensive one, as badly-stung insurers are rapidly withdrawing from providing cover for this risk - not just the loss of the yacht, but the cost of the rescue itself which as a result of the increased demand no longer can be expected gratis.
 
Wooden plates (which can be purchased in N Spain)
they dont slide and the food doesn't slide on them!! its all very well having non slip on the bottom but then the food slipd off...and on the food note for more arduous conditions, bowls with lids!
A water proof housing for a video camera, I wished we'd been able to have some films of the breaking seas behind us /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Otherwise a boat, sails, sextant, clock and tables. Sounds like you have more than enough already.
 
AndrewB you answered Summerwinds reply for me and answered what I would have said. In my experience being prepared is half the battle. It amazes me how many yachtsmen and women go to see unprepared and rely on either other yachts or the RNLI or equivalent to bail them out when the going gets tough. There is always the unexpected but a well found and prepared boat should keep you safe in almost all conditions. Never under estimate the power of the sea 28 years working on it has taught me that. Thanks for all the useful comments.
 
Lin and larry Pardey, I think it is? wrote a great book about exactly what you are asking, and got their paranchor from a surplus shop in the form of a small military supply chute. They deploy it from their bow, with a fender on its perifery (to stop it from sinking) and let it out to about the third wave from the boat (lots of warp) and also have a block on the warp with a line going back to the winch. this enables them to present the boat at about 15 degrees off the incoming waves. Also of great importance they say, is to prevent any chaffing at the fairleads with a wrapping of some material or other. Their books/articles are really worth a read and indeed you may chose to take it with you. they have sailed around the world many time in boats under 30 foot. and made a science of it. sorry I can`t give you either the title of the ISDN number but I am sure somebody will know.
Regards
Rob
 
The current parachute anchors are purpose made and have good equipment to make them easy to deploy -

as the suggested way to deploy these days is attached to the anchor and the chain forms a canteneray to help absorb the snatch the problem of chaffing has gone - mind you the chain means you need to use the snubbber and wrap the rest around the winch or similar really strong fixing - not I think the cleats.....
 
..is there any gear some of you ..would not be without?

Not much to add to the debate on para-anchors etc. basically I agree you need to be prepared.

One thing prompted by Tiga. One thing we have found a God-send is Dog Bowls with rubber feet to eat out of. They have high forma stability and dont slide around - we get them out as soon as the going gets remotely lumpy.

An idea from the BT Challenge.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Series drogue seems to me to be the better of the two options, primarily caus it is safer and easier to deploy, and a lot easier to recover - it is also a lot cheaper

[/ QUOTE ]

worth pointing out that a drogue and a sea anchor are different tools to do different jobs and are not interchangable. a sea anchor allows you to stop head to wind whereas a drogue lets you go downwind under control. the anchor tends to be a last resort when it's no longer safe to run before breaking seas. a cautious skipper will carry both.

i don't have a drogue but they can be improvised from gear on board while a sea anchor can't.
 
USCG would suggest that as a result of trials that they have carried out that a proper series drogue is actually safer than a sea anchor in those survival conditions you mention. I agree that there is a slight difference in that the sea anchor reduces drift to zero, whereas the series drogue will slow you down to abt a knot.

For those interested in the report see here
 
A large bottle of proof rum. Works wonders in a hot coffee or cocoa in the middle of a s****y watch, keeps the cold at bay and revives the spirit but must be taken in moderation or the boys in the boat with the blue flashing light will not be impressed.
 
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