A mint example of a Bertram 42 (47) aft cabin on eBay now

Bertramdriver

Bertramdriver

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www.williamsandsmithells.com
I looked at this example and blushed. Almost mint condition compared to my battered war horse.
So if you want a brilliant sea keeper, up to 20 knots cruising, Detroit engines and an unbelievable amount of room on board you have to see it. If I had the odd £100k I would buy it to have a boat in the UK and keep the one I have in Greece. Simples! I have no relationship with the owner other than a deep sense of jealousy.
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Bertramdriver said:
I looked at this example and blushed. Almost mint condition compared to my battered war horse.
So if you want a brilliant sea keeper, up to 20 knots cruising, Detroit engines and an unbelievable amount of room on board you have to see it. If I had the odd £100k I would buy it to have a boat in the UK and keep the one I have in Greece. Simples! I have no relationship with the owner other than a deep sense of jealousy.
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The Boatshed ad says Cummins V8's!
 
Can usually sit four on the flybridge, but I usually drive from inside the wheelhouse. Very large aft deck which can take 6 chairs and tables easily. I don't know what arrangement this boat has.
 
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A live aboard, euphemism for clapped out internal fittings.

Brutal old Cummins VTA903, 14.8 liter 450hp weighing 1.6 tonnes, likely has Capitol gear boxes, no more or less desirable then DD 8V71, they are all potential re-powers.

Hatteras was lovely vessel in its time, but sadly this looks like floating liability.
 
Nice to meet someone with an open mind.
Owner has contacted me and says he's spent £ 80,000 renewing and refurbing. Not much left to do except use it. Not sure why he's selling. Probably sick of Solent queuing on sunny days.
I've used Hatteras mid range boats in Florida. Basically they're a copy of a Bertram.
 
Bertramdriver said:
Nice to meet someone with an open mind.
Owner has contacted me and says he's spent £ 80,000 renewing and refurbing. Not much left to do except use it. Not sure why he's selling. Probably sick of Solent queuing on sunny days.
I've used Hatteras mid range boats in Florida. Basically they're a copy of a Bertram.
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I love old Yank stuff, well engineered and equipped, however when making big investment one has to be realistic, these thing can become a huge liability.

To run a Cummins large V or a Detroit you have to be an enthusiast, which limits your market when it comes to selling. Have regularly visited Spain and Italy looking at this stuff for owners trying to dig their way out of a hole.

Capitol gears are another issue.

Owner spent £80K, end results could be dubious however he will certainly not get his investment back.
 
I love Bertram boats myself and same for the old Hatteras, new and all the old models.

But I think the Sportfish models is always where the money has been, especially on the Bertram.
On the other hand those classic Hargrave designed Hatteras yachts, still have a strong market to them, and if renewed (see video posted here a few weeks ago) still look gorgeous and can put to shame many modern yachts.
 
tinkicker0 said:
1976 903s. run run as fast as you can. Crevice seal glands will be just about shot if they have not been done already or the motor has had extremely stringent coolant care over its entire life.... and if they finally go it is mayonnaise for oil.
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What chance has any poor smuck have finding a tech on the South Coast who even knows how to do a top set.

Mermaid took on a pair of 903 rebuilds out of a Riva Superamerica which were sinkers and promptly got out of their depth, they needed a Tinkicker. They got me instead, money money money.
 
If it had Detroit diesels, they are very noisy and very thirsty! You can't even drive the boat from the wheel house if the sliding door is open. This boat is way over priced even though she may be a nice one.

A friend of mine sold his nice one on Detroits for half that and it was sold on for considerably less. Still having said that, they are extremely roomy and a great sea boat and of course totally well proven!:cool:
 
If it had Detroit diesels, they are very noisy and very thirsty! You can't even drive the boat from the wheel house if the sliding door is open.


Bull sh.t . Yes the DD's are noisy but I don't have any problem driving from the wheel house, which is open at the back, and we regularly do 5/6 hour transits. For those who don't enjoy the exhaust note it's easy to fit mufflers to direct the exhaust into the prop wash (mine are modified cooking pots) put the autopilot on and drive from the foredeck seating in virtual silence.
As far as DD's being thirsty, this is an exaggerated myth. There's been enough research and debate in both the US and UK to show that the burn rate is only marginally greater than contemporary 4 strokes. Obviously if you compare to modern engines DD's are thirsty, but we all can't afford new boats.
 
Bertramdriver said:
If it had Detroit diesels, they are very noisy and very thirsty! You can't even drive the boat from the wheel house if the sliding door is open.


Bull sh.t . Yes the DD's are noisy but I don't have any problem driving from the wheel house, which is open at the back, and we regularly do 5/6 hour transits. For those who don't enjoy the exhaust note it's easy to fit mufflers to direct the exhaust into the prop wash (mine are modified cooking pots) put the autopilot on and drive from the foredeck seating in virtual silence.
As far as DD's being thirsty, this is an exaggerated myth. There's been enough research and debate in both the US and UK to show that the burn rate is only marginally greater than contemporary 4 strokes. Obviously if you compare to modern engines DD's are thirsty, but we all can't afford new boats.
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As I mentioned in earlier post on this thread Detroit's are for enthusiasts only.

I was real close to the boat market in Southern California where they offer grants to assist in costs of DD re-powers based on fact not an 'exaggerated myth' as you put it.

Every single re-power has shown not less than a 25% gain in MPG w/most at 35% or better to do the same exact work, day in and day out..The 12V-71 NA was one that showed some of the worst BSFC, hence showed the best gain in fuel economy. The 12V-71TIs used in crew boats were probably in second place as to being the worst fuel hogs...

This is not an opinion, it´s backed up by hard data that is gathered and verified and then sent in quarterly to the various State of California Air Pollution Control Districts. Besides that, this data has been field audited many times and has always been re-substantiated again, and can be requested under freedom of information.

I have been involved with five DD re-powers in Belgium, Italy and Spain, fuel economy was certainly issue, but general sociability was the main driver. Noise, Smoke and oil leaks.
 
Poor Pauline and Mr B, they have cummins in their superamerica. I thought they were good engines, military and busesw, but I know squat about mercan cummins. I thought Carlo would have used good engines in his products.
 
ccscott49 said:
Poor Pauline and Mr B, they have cummins in their superamerica. I thought they were good engines, military and busesw, but I know squat about mercan cummins. I thought Carlo would have used good engines in his products.
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VTA903's were a potent package in their time. Unlike Detroit, 903's are sort of in production, Seymour Indiana production line has never been closed down, however this is where the problems originate.

Cummins wanted to end production many years ago, however U.S State Department stepped in due to huge reliance on engine by the military. In order to keep the lines open the Government purchased the tooling. The result is that whilst all parts still available they are extremely expensive as there is another mouth to feed in the revenue chain, the U.S Government. In addition 903 is the power pack for the British AS90 self propelled howitzer, built by Vickers in the mid 90's now owned by BAE Systems (Big And Expensive) best bit of kit of its type and allegedly still for sale. Suffice to say this is now a very specialist engine.

Italy is pretty well served with techs who know the engine well, rest of Europe far less so, therefore maintenance of some 30 year old engines likely to be at best patchy. Engine is VERY water treatment, DCA critical and unless maintained by the book, can be a ticking time bomb as mentioned by Tinkicker. Actually finding a tech who actually knows the engine and has correct tooling can be a challenge, this is no DIY motor, simply changing lube and filters is not the answer to long and trouble free life. Better on fuel than equivalent DD and less smoky however that is about all, a mechanically noisy beast.

Many Superamerica's have been re-powered with Cummins C Series which is an icon of simplicity and reliability.

Old boats with geriatric engines of ANY color are never a path to relaxed trouble free boating.
 
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Here we go,

As result of post just had message from somebody looking at a 1975 Riva Superamerica 45 listed @£115,000.

Broker says wonderful engines in perfect order Cummins 903 370's.

Dig deeper and you realise that engines are NOT 903's but the earlier V795's 12.8 liter motors for which there is zero support, zilch nothing. I doubt if I would even be able to obtain a fuel pump calibration for them.

Perfect illustration of poison pill old boats can be.
 
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