A Head Question.

[Alistairr]

I'm looking for do's and Don'ts for using and servicing the Head!!!

Hoping that Peggie might read this and reply also.

We've never had a head before, and during the handover we were shown how to use it.
It is a Sea toilet, so we need to look at fitting a holding tank.
It does stink to high heaven which the guy said it was because it was last used in the sea a few months ago and there was old water in the pipes.
I've flushed it through about a 100 pumps and the smell is slowly disappearing, am i write in doing this??

Also the good lady has seen an in line cleaner in some swindlery mags and wants me to fit one, like this:

Is there any problem to fitting these things?
And is there any particular solvents i should and shouldn't put down the loo??

Also how difficult is it too fit a holding tank?

I've read the thread on the water tank tablets and have found it interesting and will follow some instructions from there also.

Hope you can help,

Cheers

Ali.

 

[Talbot]

The only reason for the pipes to smell is cause they were not pumped out properly before. You might be lucky and have solved the problem, but I would suspect that the numpties before made a habit of not pumping enough to evacuate the pipes, and that the smell is now ingrained in the pipes.

I have no fancy cleaner, and no smell either, although my pipes are 10 years ols and will need replacing next winter (precautionary measure)

 

[Alistairr]

Ok, so on each occasion, how many pumps on average is best to do??

Thanks.

 

[jfm]

Those gadgets are dead easy to fit. Wont make loads of difference though. I dont quite agree with Talbot. If toilet not used for a while, say a week, the seawater in the inlet flush pipes "rots" and when you next flush this smelly water is flushed through. No amount of flushing when you last use it will cure that. However, your water is lake fresh water so you might get less of this problem?

People rig up valves and stuff so as to fill the flushing pipes with freshwater before leavign the boat. But this is fiddly and anyway you must not connect the potable water tank to the toilet flush except by using a proprietary isolating valve, else lots of nice e-coli in your fresh water

I would always bite the bullet on this one, chuck it away, and get a freshwater flusher. Luverrly

Holding tank is easy to fit in principle, but you need to find a space for it. Normally requires a lift out to fit an extra seacock for the macerated discharge, unless you're lucky and find that your flush water inlet seacock is slightly oversize and can be used as your holding tank macerator discharge (and then replace toilet with fresh water flusher)

 

[BlueChip]

As others have said the cause of the smell is anaerobic bacteria in the inlet line, no amount of flushing will get rid of them

We solved the smelly heads problem with a similar device from Lee Sanitation to the one you show., but don't fit it between the flush pump and the bowl, put it in the inlet line between the sea cock and the pump.
Don't use the tablets that come with it, they are just perfumed dyes like loo blocks you get in tesco.
Get a swimming pool chlorine block (we got ours in the hypermarket at Cherbourg years ago for a few francs) and break off a piece about the size of a pea - put it in the holder.
This will dose the flush water with a very mild chlorine solution and although it will have a trace of swimming pool smell it will mean that your flush water is sterile, the bugs in the inlet pipe will not grow and of course will also sterilise any bugs in the bowl and outlet pipe. The chlorine pea will last a couple of weeks.
We have two Jabsco heads on board and have used this system on each for about 5 years. I may be coincidence but in all that time our heads have been trouble free and we only change the joker valve each year.

 

[Talbot]

That is not a question that can be answered with a single number, cause it will depend on type of head, and length of pipe to be emptied. You can make a rough estimate by diameter of pump and length of stroke compared to diameter and length of pipe, remembering that unless you keep the O ring on the pump reasonably lubricated, the quantity being pumped will decrease over time.

On mine I only have abt 1 metre of pipe and always give it about 8 pumps after bowl contents have cleared!

 

[Talbot]

Whilst always prepared to accept I know nothing, My heads have not been touched (other than an occasional dab of silicone grease on the O ring on the pump) in the 10+ yeras since I instaled them. I dont use the special no smell line (cause I didnt know about it when I did the installation),

But my heads dont smell at all! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[smileygirl]

I had this problem on my old boat - I kept it on a river and the loos would stink after 1 week plus. Found out later cause is anearobic decay in water inlet pipe - not the outlet. If your loos have been left unused the hydrogen sulphide that creates the smell gets absorbed by the plastic pipes and bacteria gets trapped in all the little nooks and crannies in the inlet system. replace the inlet hose and clean all the inlets and fittings with straight bleach and leave for an hour or more. rinse off and replace with new pipe. Strangely new boat has been on same river and is now on salt water and loos never smell.

holding tank quite straight forward to fit - try ASAPsupplies have a range of kits pumps etc and prices much better than swindlery. Make sure tank is well fixed cause its v heavy when full. if fitting a new one try and fit a level sensir to it. I overflowed my holding tank once - not pretty !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tico]

If unused for a week or so then the bugs in the inlet line give off H2S (rotten eggs) worse in summer. First job on arrival is a few pumps which soon clears it.

No of pumps = length of boat

Wheres the piccies????

 

[Alistairr]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

I was hoping i would get away without replacing the pipe!
Do i Really need to that??

Thanks Again.

Ali.

 

[itsonlymoney]

Doesnt answer your questions Al but for your information I put a few capfulls of caravan type rinse additive in the bowl when we leave the boat for the week. Seems to stop any pongs, well untill Sunday morning that is. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Ian

 

[robind]

Use will tell you how many pumps to clear solids from your pipes. pump until you
"feel" the solids clear your system and then a couple more.
believe it or not you can "feel" them passing down the line on the way out. and then evacuate the water (move the switch across)

To prevent blockages when using toilet paper, flush on several occasions so that smaller amounts of solids transit the pipes at any one time, ie flush during use if "contents of bowl considered to be getting dramatic"

A friend had another friend to visit on his boat and he "filled the bowl" to the top and then found, for whatever reason, that he couldn`t pump it out. no other member of the crew felt disposed to clear out the pan, until his unfortunate wife undertook to do it , Phew! what a job eh?

 

[HeadMistress]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm looking for do's and Don'ts for using and servicing the Head!!!

Hoping that Peggie might read this and reply also.

We've never had a head before, and during the handover we were shown how to use it. [ QUOTE ]


Hooboy...how to give you a basic "marine toilet 101" course in just a few paragraphs is a real challenge! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
It is a Sea toilet, so we need to look at fitting a holding tank. [ QUOTE ]


First we need determine the best size for a tank for YOUR intended use...where to put it...then how to plumb it. That's a whole 'nother topic we need to address separately. Right now, we just need to deal with your odor and how to flush the toilet correctly.

[ QUOTE ]
It does stink to high heaven which the guy said it was because it was last used in the sea a few months ago and there was old water in the pipes.[ QUOTE ]


Maybe. If the odor is only from the toilet, and goes away after the first few flushes rinses all the stagnant sea water out of the line, it's only stagnant sea water trapped in the intake but if the odor is pretty much all the time and pervasive throughout the boat, it's more likely to be permeated sanitation hoses...and the only cure for that is new hose.

[ QUOTE ]
I've flushed it through about a 100 pumps and the smell is slowly disappearing, am i write in doing this?? [ QUOTE ]


If it were only stagnant water, the odor should have been gone in just a few pumps. That it hasn't may mean that there's some dead and decaying animal or vegetable sea life trapped in the intake line, pump and/or channel in the rim of the bowl. That's even more likely if you see black flecks in the bowl when you flush. Whether that's the problem or not, try this:

Close the intake seacock...remove the hose from the thru-hull. Put it in a bucket of clean fresh water and a liter of white vinegar. Flush the whole bucketful through the toilet. Flush it completely through...don't leave any sitting in the bowl. Don't use the toilet for at least a few hours. Then try flushing another bucketful of clean fresh water through. If it worked, the odor should be gone.

I also recommend that unless it's been changed within the last year, you replace the joker valve in the toilet discharge. If it's worn, odor from waste and sea water in the toilet discharge line may be escaping back into the bowl.

[ QUOTE ]
Also the good lady has seen an in line cleaner in some swindlery mags and wants me to fit one, like this...Is there any problem to fitting these things? [ QUOTE ]


I don't care much for "inline devices"...their effectiveness varies, they can be messy, and the chemicals in some of 'em can interact negatively with holding tank chemicals.

[ QUOTE ]
And is there any particular solvents i should and shouldn't put down the loo?? [ QUOTE ]


NOTHING should go down the loo except what you've already eaten, minimal amounts of quick-dissolve TP and a little mineral or vegetable (I prefer mineral) oil--no more than tablespoon at a time.

[ QUOTE ]
Also how difficult is it too fit a holding tank? [ QUOTE ]


Kinda like asking how hard it is to build a boat. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Degree of difficulty depends on location of available space and what the plumbing has to go over, under around and through to get there. Some are very straightforward and relatively easy...others can be a nightmare. We can discuss your particulars via PM and email and I'll walk you through what to do.

Meanwhile, I'm sure you'll have more questions about how to use and maintain your toilet. What its make/model...how old is it? And how long has it been since it's been serviced (all the rubber bits replaced)--if ever?

(Good Lord, why did breaking up allister's questions into separate quotes spread this all over the page??? Sorry folks!)

 

[landaftaf]

in my opinion posting like this makes reading it a pain in the arse .... in fact I gave up !

/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[Talbot]

Does anybody dare to ask another question?


Peggy to the rescue again

 

[HeadMistress]

I don't know WHY it formatted as it did...I thought each one would just a new paragraph, aligned left. You're right, it's all but impossible to read. I can no longer edit it, so I'm repeating here, using just quotation marks:

"I'm looking for do's and Don'ts for using and servicing the Head!!! Hoping that Peggie might read this and reply also. We've never had a head before, and during the handover we were shown how to use it."

Hooboy...how to give you a basic "marine toilet 101" course in just a few paragraphs is a real challenge!


"It is a Sea toilet, so we need to look at fitting a holding tank."

First we need determine the best size for a tank for YOUR intended use...where to put it...then how to plumb it. That's a whole 'nother topic we need to address separately. Right now, we just need to deal with your odor and how to flush the toilet correctly.

"It does stink to high heaven which the guy said it was because it was last used in the sea a few months ago and there was old water in the pipes."

Maybe. If the odor is only from the toilet, and goes away after the first few flushes rinses all the stagnant sea water out of the line, it's only stagnant sea water trapped in the intake but if the odor is pretty much all the time and pervasive throughout the boat, it's more likely to be permeated sanitation hoses...and the only cure for that is new hose.

"I've flushed it through about a 100 pumps and the smell is slowly disappearing, am i write in doing this??"

If it were only stagnant water, the odor should have been gone in just a few pumps. That it hasn't may mean that there's some dead and decaying animal or vegetable sea life trapped in the intake line, pump and/or channel in the rim of the bowl. That's even more likely if you see black flecks in the bowl when you flush. Whether that's the problem or not, try this:

Close the intake seacock...remove the hose from the thru-hull. Put it in a bucket of clean fresh water and a liter of white vinegar. Flush the whole bucketful through the toilet. Flush it completely through...don't leave any sitting in the bowl. Don't use the toilet for at least a few hours. Then try flushing another bucketful of clean fresh water through. If it worked, the odor should be gone.

I also recommend that unless it's been changed within the last year, you replace the joker valve in the toilet discharge. If it's worn, odor from waste and sea water in the toilet discharge line may be escaping back into the bowl.


"Also the good lady has seen an in line cleaner in some swindlery mags and wants me to fit one, like this...Is there any problem to fitting these things?"

I don't care much for "inline devices"...their effectiveness varies, they can be messy, and the chemicals in some of 'em can interact negatively with holding tank chemicals.

"And is there any particular solvents i should and shouldn't put down the loo??"

NOTHING should go down the loo except what you've already eaten, minimal amounts of quick-dissolve TP and a little mineral or vegetable (I prefer mineral) oil--no more than tablespoon at a time.

"Also how difficult is it too fit a holding tank?"

Degree of difficulty depends on location of available space and what the plumbing has to go over, under around and through to get there. Some are very straightforward and relatively easy...others can be a nightmare. We can discuss your particulars via PM and email and I'll walk you through what to do. Meanwhile, I'm sure you'll have more questions about how to use and maintain your toilet. What its make/model...how old is it? And how long has it been since it's been serviced (all the rubber bits replaced)--if ever?

(This looked MUCH easier to read when I previewed it, although the previous mish-mash has made the field way wider than it should be... So sorry! and you can be sure I won't do THAT again!)

 

[BrendanS]

Peggie, next time just put the cursor past the unquote bit and hit return like this

[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]

What you've done is quoted within a quote like this

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

If unsure of how it will look, just tick the box at bottom left of text entering bit that says 'preview post' and you can see what it looks like and make changes before hitting the 'continue' button

 

[HeadMistress]

Thanks, Brendan...but I think I'll just stick with formatting I understand from now on.

I have sent an email asking for the "offending" post to be removed.

 

[Alistairr]

Hi Peggie, Don't worry about the post format, found it quite esy to read!

I don't know what model of toilet it is, but am going to the boat tomorrow for the weekend, so will try too find out. I don't know if it was ever serviced, but very much doudt it had.
[ QUOTE ]
I also recommend that unless it's been changed within the last year, you replace the joker valve in the toilet discharge. If it's worn, odor from waste and sea water in the toilet discharge line may be escaping back into the bowl.


[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think it will have been changed, and if i knew what it was i would change it myself, maybe someone can show me and tell me how to change this valve. Also that might be the reason why there was some gurguling coming from the head when it wasn't in use!! Correct???

The smell is still there, although not as bad, so it looks like you might be right about it being permeated sanitation hoses.
I will try flushing it with vinegar first, and if that doesn't work, then i suppose i will need to replace the pipe!! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Thanks for all the info Peggie.

Alistair.

 

[HeadMistress]

A joker valve is a one way valve in the head discharge fitting. It's a cup-shaped thingy that has a slit--or maybe an X--in the bottom and "lips" on the on the outside...the flange is also the gasket that seals the discharge fitting to the pump. If there's a vented loop in the line between the toilet and the thru-hull...iow, the flush has to go up before it goes down...and any water remains in the line between the bowl and the top of the loop, it can end up back in the bowl if the joker valve is worn. It's easy to change out.

However, I don't THINK it's responsible for the gurgling sound. I suspect that's sea water rising in the line to the boat's waterline...which can also end up in the bowl if the bowl is at or below the waterline and there is no vented loop in the discharge line. But even if the toilet is above waterline, sea water can be forced up the line by the pressure of the water against the hull while underway--an effect known as "ram water" (the water is rammed up the pipe)--which is why the thru-hull should always be kept closed except when using the toilet.