A couple of Wykeham-Martin tips

[Santana379]

I was chatting to Dick Larkman down at Larkmans yard yesterday - a displacement activity on my part to avoid actually having to work on FF. I'd already shortened the available working time by popping in to Robertsons yard for a chat with Mirelle, and subsequently had a snooze on FF's cabin sole in the middle of reconnecting the galley sink water pipe!

He mentioned a couple of tricks with Wykeham-Martins I thought might be worth passing on - I note there was a thread on the subject started by Kristal on 03/01/04.

1) Have a second wire, exactly the same length as the sail's luff wire, slightly stronger than it. This second wire is lashed to the luff wire at about the same interval as hanks might be, about half an inch away from it. The second wire also goes onto the shackles top and bottom when setting up the furled sail. The principle is that the two wires will not wrap around each other, and it apparently works a treat, providing a beautiful even roll in all wind conditions.

2) Have the foresail made with a padded luff in the middle, tapering down in either direction. This wraps the centre more rapidly, avoiding that annoying triangle you often get left with when you run out of furling line.

Anyone else tried either of these?

 

[Transcur]

Have tried haviing two luff wires sewn together. Not very impressed. Would be better if they were a couple of inches apart and both under tension. A little more costly but very effective is what I used for about 20 years. A stainless steel long link chain sewn into the luff pocket. Links a about 4 inches long extended diamond shape. Never failed to furl properly in all conditions. Jib area about 140 sq ft. Sold the boat kept the chain, some where in the workshop.

Stating the obvious, if you have a luff wire you must furl it the right way.

 

[Santana379]

Interesting that you've tried it.

Dick Larkman said both wires had to be under tension, but perhaps I didn't make that clear. Hence the need for them to be exactly the same length, as they are both fastened at each end to the same shackles. He was adamant that half an inch separation was enough, and had used this system for many years successfully.

He learnt it from another boat - they used to wonder why the other boat's jib always furled well in all conditions, and of course couldn't see the second wire when it was furled, and didn't notice it when it wasn't. Eventually they asked.

Our conversation took a number of turns, as do the threads I post to. Must learn to maintain concentration and focus better. One, which was quite interesting, was his long held desire to gaff rig a Dragon. He reckons the mast steps sufficiently far forward. What a beast that would be, carrying a huge cloud of sail!

Dick used to maintain Mirelle (the boat, not the forum correspondent) as a young shipwright at Whisstocks. He has a wealth of tales, including the Rolls Royce/Bentley one already posted a while ago, and how she put her bowsprit the the cabin windows of a motor cruiser, how she lost her topmast in a tangle with another boat etc. Mirelle seems to lead quite a sedate life by comparison nowadays. As you will gather, I did very little maintenance today!

 

[Mirelle]

I first met Transcur 21 years ago on Mistley Quay at the end of an OGA event. I asked his advice on choice of sailmakers, he recommended Gayle Heard. To Gayle I duly went and Gayle recommended a very thick luff wire for W/M Gear, which I've used for the past couple of decades. I also believe in using oversized W/M gear.

 

[Kristal]

Mirelle\'s bowsprit...

...is a most viscious looking thing. I still suspect her owner has an enormous pencil sharpener lurking somewhere in his garage.

The reason I mention it is because I recently measured Crystal's sailplan for application to the OGA and entry to the Frostbite Race. Having borrowed a 50-metre tape measure, I thought it would make sense to find out the one measurement I didn't know - her true LOA.

This we took to be bowsprit end to mizzen-boom end (it overhangs the bumpkin by almost a foot), and proved to be 38ft!! I've always worked in LWL, LOD and LOA (22ft, 30ft 6in, and 38ft), but found in a back issue of CB the phrase "Length - Spars". Anyone heard this before?

Either way, I shan't be using her LOA in the presence of marina staff anymore, that's for certain...

/<

 

[John_B]

Re: Mirelle\'s bowsprit...

Hi Guys, thats a very interesting idea. I improved my furl considerably by swapping the top swivel for a modern ' code zero' type top swivel with torlon bearings but it still leaves a bit to be desired. I recently had this conversation about double spectra or wire with my sailmaker but not this idea about running the 'spare' wire outside the luff of the sail. It strikes me that the wire could be a few inches short and have a vectran or spectra cord finishing up the length so that it could be adjusted.?

 

[Santana379]

Re: Mirelle\'s bowsprit...

Hi John

Yours must be the only 1907 Gaff Cutter with a code zero type top swivel with torlon bearings! I can see how it might offer less resistance to swivelling than the original equipment! Until looking up your details I thought John_B might be the name of your boat, as in the Beach Boys "Sloop John B".

I imagine you could have a vectran or spectra cord finishing up the length so that it could be adjusted to exactly the same length, but as I can see no benefit to adjustment, wouldn't it be better to get the wire made up to exactly the same length in the first place? Also, if you have the lashings, adding tension to the external wire and not the luff wire would simply draw the wires closer together? Perhaps not given the stretch characteristics of the wire.

I see you're in the city of sails. It would be silly to pretend I'm not jealous, but I'll try to be nice all the same. A few years back I worked for the UK subsidiary of an Auckland based company, with its main factory in Hamilton, called Trigon - great company and great people. I used to listen with envy when they described their three week Christmas breaks in the height of the sailing season, when most of them seemed to sail off up the coast.

Is yours a New Zealand built boat?

Francis Fletcher

 

[Porthandbuoy]

Re: Mirelle\'s bowsprit...

LOA Vs Length over Spars. I may be wrong, but I understand LOA to mean Length Over All fixed bits. ie. bowsprit end to transom or bumpkin. A gaffer with a humungous boom extending several feet aft of the transom would have an LOA < its Length over Spars.

 

[Kristal]

LOA vs LOS

This makes absolute sense. Our mizzenboom hangs a bit further than the bumkin, so I'm going to make that 37ft!

 

[John_B]

Re: LOA vs LOS

Hi Francis Fletcher. Yup, we're in Auckland. I Know Trigon and met Bill Foreman a few times over the years. that was a pretty big boat he had from memory.
We went away for 5 weeks this year cruising up the coast at christmas and got good weather so thats our major sailing fix for the year.
Waione is a 1907 Bailey design. The Logans and the Baileys were our "Fifes" or "Watsons" of the day and although designers in their own rights , were heavily influenced by those mentioned designers.

 

[Santana379]

Re: Logans & Baileys

Hi John

The Logans get some coverage in the Classic Yacht press over here, but Bailey has passed me by (apologies), so I'll make a point of finding out a little more. I've no doubt when I next see him Mirelle will be able to enlighten me. Any pics of yours on the web?

New Zealand seems to have quite protective legislation in place to ensure its maritime heritage doesn't disappear abroad. Does that mean you can't take yours for a long cruise?

I think the whole Trigon board had yachts - I know Len Belz was another keen sailor. When Bill sold out for $$$ lots and lots I believe he bought a fairly serious crewed yacht in Europe. Working for them was great - a real can do approach meant that in our 1st year of production from a greenfield site factory at Telford, we took 40% of the UK market we had entered.

If you want to be popular on a UK based forum I wouldn't mention the 5 week Christmas cruise too often. I sailed at Christmas - lovely it was too, but for one (short) day only, and in thermals.

 

[John_B]

Re: Logans & Baileys

Our old boat is not a sea going boat anyway but yes the legislation is there to try and keep a pretty limited resouce here.
You could go to www.gaffrig.co.nz. Its not my site but the owner of it made a video on our boat so theres some thumbnails and a 30sec trailer. I also gave him a " boats I have seen" type register I put together so you can get an idea of the sort of boats we have there.
I'll check out another link too......

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Logans & Baileys

Hi John

If the "boats I have seen type register" you refer to is the one that mentions Dawn with location uncertain, then there is a Dawn (I believe I remember the name correctly) looking about the correct age and size in Wellington. I have never seen anyone on board it.

It is in same marina as us so if of use I could take a photograph and email to you (might take a few weeks as we are hoping to get away on the boat for a few weeks).

There was another very nice old timer by us too for a while whose name I cannot recall. Only saw the owner briefly once and was in a hurry but he told me it was of 1890's vintage (think he said 1896?). But has now disappeared so cannot get anymore info on it - a nuisance as I was quite interested, but maybe it will be back.

John

 

[Santana379]

Re: Logans & Baileys

Not got broadband, so only saw the small video.

Wow!

 

[John_B]

Re: Logans & Baileys

she's a bit scruffy and tired now but... we're coming to the end of our season and she's done some cruising miles and few races in quite heavy air. Still warm right now though.24 C or so.

Hi John. Dawn could be there now .I haven't seen her for a while. She used to be here in Akl. She's about 28 or 30 ft, narrow .She had a major do up in the early 80's.
The other classic. white, about 34 ft plus bowsprit, gaff rig, transitional clipper/fiddle bow... Yum Yum a 2'/12 rater.
Black, 42 ft plus bowsprit,gaff rig ,similar bow... Rona( the Watson design ,Logan build) White, 39 ft plus bowsprit,spoon bow,Bermudan rig Marangi, a Le Huquet( but she's 1910).
anything else,I'd love to know .

Here's another link on NZ boats if you're interested. there's a pdf regatta program they are calling a register but don't beleive the measurements. A marketing man got hold of it and inflated the boat lengths by including bowsprits.( roll eyes) The dreaded marina managers version of LOA.

http://www.classicyacht.org.nz/

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Logans & Baileys

If it is the same boat, is in quite good condition but I don't think much cosmetic work has been done to her for some years so some of the finishes are deteriorating a bit. She is bermudan rigged if I recall correctly.

I'll email you a photo of her (I assume the email address on the Gaffrig Productions site will work) and ask around about the name of the other one I mentioned {Edit: Looking through the photos on Classic Yacht Association she is almost certainly Yum Yum - she was just a couple of berths along from us. I must take a greater interest in these boats /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.}

John