9.9 Honda (2001) Dies when I open the throttle beyond quarter revs.

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arthurpavlovic

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Hi folks.

Brought my Balaton 24 (cruiser) out last week but as I came off the mooring, against wind and tide, and opened her up. The engine died back and I had to reduce throttle to get her to run normally. She is in the club boatyard now. I will get a barrel and fill it up and try a few things. (No line for water muffs.) The only thing I have noticed, is that for years, when I squeeze the bulb, in the fuel line, it never gets hard. (I do not normally use the Honda above quarter throttle (the engine has a governor, until it is put into gear, so the problem may have been there for years.)

Would you please let me have your suggestions as to cause of my problem? (Engine dies back when throttling hard in gear.) I have tried carb. cleaner spray but with little response.

P.S. It is the 9.9hp which I suspect is the same engine as the 12hp and the 15hp. If I have to replace the carburetor, is it interchangeable with the 12hp and the 15hp? What I am trying to ask is can I put a carb from a 15hp onto my 9.9hp and turn it into a 15hp? Thanks.

All suggestions, comments and contributions, will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
Arthur
R.I.B.C. Barrow in Furness.
 
I'd suggest that it is a petrol supply problem, with electronic ignition it is unlikely to be in that area. Think about it, it runs, but will not run at higher revs (demands more fuel - fuel cannot be delivered). Carb cleaner is only effective in this case if you take it off (carb) then strip it down and clean it. I would expect the problem to be something like a sticking float (in the float chamber) or crud in one of the jets or airways. Some carbs are now just about sealed units, but if the problem is not obvious, take the carb to someone who specialises in this type of engine as they can clean the carb internally in a tank. I know this, I've had it done.

Just had another thought, does the engine have a fuel pump? That is worth a look. Your comment about the priming pump is making me think, if the non return valve in this is weak, will that effect fuel delivery?

PS, welcome to the forum.
 
arthurpavlovic said:
Hi folks.

Brought my Balaton 24 (cruiser) out last week but as I came off the mooring, against wind and tide, and opened her up. The engine died back and I had to reduce throttle to get her to run normally. She is in the club boatyard now. I will get a barrel and fill it up and try a few things. (No line for water muffs.) The only thing I have noticed, is that for years, when I squeeze the bulb, in the fuel line, it never gets hard. (I do not normally use the Honda above quarter throttle (the engine has a governor, until it is put into gear, so the problem may have been there for years.)

Would you please let me have your suggestions as to cause of my problem? (Engine dies back when throttling hard in gear.) I have tried carb. cleaner spray but with little response.

P.S. It is the 9.9hp which I suspect is the same engine as the 12hp and the 15hp. If I have to replace the carburetor, is it interchangeable with the 12hp and the 15hp? What I am trying to ask is can I put a carb from a 15hp onto my 9.9hp and turn it into a 15hp? Thanks.

All suggestions, comments and contributions, will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
Arthur
R.I.B.C. Barrow in Furness.
Click to expand...


I think probably needs a carb clean.

You say you have used cleaner spray but have you stripped it and cleaned all the jets and passages. Or merely sprayed cleaner into it ?

I take it pumping the bulb does not help

Does choking it help.


There may be significant other difference between the 15hp and the 9.9hp. apart from the carbs.
 
I agree that it looks like a petrol issue. With the bulb, make sure that it is vertical with the inlet from the tank at the bottom and the outlet to the engine at the top when you pump it. This should make the little ball valve inside fall back correctly. If the bulb still doesn't get hard you might need to replace it. They don't cost a lot.

If that doesn't help, the next thing to try is to drain all of the old petrol out of the tank, as well as out of the float chamber of the carb if you can (there is often a drain screw at the bottom of the chamber to do this), and refill the tank with fresh petrol. While you are at it, check the spark plug for a spark and replace if there is none or it is weak.

If all that doesn't work, then you will need to look at the carb itself. I would be surprised if you actually need to replace it as such. The majority of problems of this type are due to deposits from old petrol that have remained in the carb over the winter or for longer. Take the carb off and give it a thorough clean, including blowing through all the passageways with compressed air. Make sure that the float chamber is clean with no gunge. Check that the needle valve is not sticking and that the float lever is adjusted the correct distance above the float - the figure for this should be in the user manual, typically a few mm. Reassemble it all carefully using parts from a carb repair kit if you want, otherwise use the cleaned old parts if they are not damaged.

In most cases this will get it running perfectly, if not, you have another problem.

Rob.
 
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Two extra things that come to mind. it may be that the bulb needs replacing. This can be easily checked if you can borrow someone else's tank and fuel-line.
The other thing is the in-line fuel filter, usually between the fuel tap and the pump or carb in the power head casing. This usually causes a faltering a few moments after opening the throttle when the float level drops as the fuel doesn't fill the float chamber quickly enough. If you never use wider throttle openings it may be something you have never spotted. You can usually buy an in-line filter for £5 or so. If it's a small one jammed in an awkward spot, only the manufacturer ones will fit and are often £20 or so!
 
I have a Honda BF15 of 90s vintage.
Your symptoms do sound like fuel starvation due to a blocked filter.
I think the bulb thing is a red herring. you only need to prime it to get the fuel pump flooded so that it can take over and suck from there. My bulb only works if i hold it so the flow is directly upwards while i squeeze it. Since i don't usually disconnect the line at all nor run the carb out of fuel, I dont squeeze the priming bulb very often at all.

Although it sounds fuel related, don't discount a possible problem with the CDI. I had terrible intermittent starting problems and actually replaced the wiring loom having convinced myself of a wire break. Didnt fix it. Finally bit the bullet and replaced the CDI unit. End of problem.
all affordable via http://www.boats.net/
Good luck.

PS Just a stray thought: no possibility of a restriction on the air inlet to the carburetor is there? I once tied a gauze over a carb in lieu of an air filter. Fine at low speeds, but couldnt pass enough air as the throttle was opened, so it sucked fule instead and choked..... Some bright spark hasn't blocked the vent in the engine cover for instance?
 
Thanks for your comments, but today I took a step backward. Set a tank up and filled it, but the Honda would only run on one cylinder. This has happened before, and is usually cured by replacing the plugs, but putting the spare plugs in did not help this time. Then it went dark. I will go back tomorrow with a new set of brand new plugs, just in case the replacements had a dud in them. I can perhaps clean the leads and check for spark. Oh well......Thanks again. P.S. Dark Side is still my favorite album.
 
Thanks for your comments, but today I took a step backward. Set a tank up and filled it, but the Honda would only run on one cylinder. This has happened before, and is usually cured by replacing the plugs, but putting the spare plugs in did not help this time. Then it went dark. I will go back tomorrow with a new set of brand new plugs, just in case the replacements had a dud in them. I can perhaps clean the leads and check for spark.

I did only spray cleaner into it, but left it for a few hours. Later I sprayed into the carb, a little at a time, while it was running, and it did seem to make a difference. It restored the tick-over, which had been stalling. Choking it had helped to keep it ticking over, before I used the carb cleaner. I have not been able to try pumping the bulb yet, because it is not running. aaargghhh. A new tank, pipe, and bulb arrived today, but I have not yet fitted them. Thanks again.
 
Hi Lakesailor, thanks for your comments. I have a new bulb tank and line to go on. It may be worth changing the in-line fuel filter but it is Honda's own. It won't be cheap and it was replaced about six hours running (two years ago). I usually run the carb out of fuel, but old men forget.....Maybe I can temporarily bypass it with a cheap one, which I already have, just to rule it out.

Today I set a tank up and filled it, but the Honda would only run on one cylinder. This has happened before, and is usually cured by replacing the plugs, but putting the spare plugs in did not help this time. Then it went dark. I will go back tomorrow with a new set of brand new plugs, just in case the replacements had a dud in them. I can perhaps clean the leads and check for spark.

Thanks again for your comments, and thanks for your videos on the lake with your Seahawk. I bought one called Pippin from Liverpool this year, but have not had time to take her out. Best wishes
 
Hi thanks for your comments. I have actually got a new male and female fuel connectors ready to go on (£38). The old O ring was leaking so I bought them. Then my clever clogs mate took out the old O ring out, turned it round and stopped it leaking. So, I am fairly sure that there are no leaking. Today it would only fire on one cylinder, so the mire gets deeper. When I get it running I will probably put the new fuel connectors on. Thanks again for your comments, best wishes
 
Hi John the Kiwi, thanks for your comments. Started the damn thing today but it was only running on one cylinder. So I will now have to get it running better, before I can try some of your suggestions. The problem could well be with the CDI, but I will have to eliminate a few other thins first. How much was the CDI for yours? I removed the air inlet to the carburetor recently and did not notice anything in there, but I will have another look. You mention a blocked vent in the engine cover. I did not know there was a vent in the engine cover. Where is it please?
Thanks for all your comments.
 
Hi Martin,

Thanks for your comment, but this is the second lot of fresh petrol from the Esso garage. The dearest unleaded you can buy, bought from different pumps.

Thanks for taking an interest.
Arthur
 
Sorry, I am new to forums, and forgot to put names onto my replies. My first reply was to galadriel, my second was to VicS, third to rbmathews and so on in chronological order until Lakesailor. Very sorry, now I know. I will name the person to whom I am replying.
 
Had similar problems with an outboard a few years ago, cleaning the carb and jets fixed it for a few minutes then it came back. In the end I discovered the inside of the fuel pipe from the tank to the carb was breaking up and little bits of rubber stuff were screwing up the carb, changed the pipe and it became the most reliable engine
 
Mine has done this twice, both through my own stupidity. First time I forgot to open the tank valve so it was trying to vacuum pump the tank, second time I had been a bit careless running the hose from the cockpit locker, so when I sat on the lid it cut the fuel off. In both cases the engine would idle but died as soon as it was put in gear and throttle opened. So it sounds very much like fuel starvation but probably due to a less obvious cause.
 
arthurpavlovic said:
Hi folks.

Brought my Balaton 24 (cruiser) out last week but as I came off the mooring, against wind and tide, and opened her up. The engine died back and I had to reduce throttle to get her to run normally. She is in the club boatyard now. I will get a barrel and fill it up and try a few things. (No line for water muffs.) The only thing I have noticed, is that for years, when I squeeze the bulb, in the fuel line, it never gets hard. (I do not normally use the Honda above quarter throttle (the engine has a governor, until it is put into gear, so the problem may have been there for years.)

Would you please let me have your suggestions as to cause of my problem? (Engine dies back when throttling hard in gear.) I have tried carb. cleaner spray but with little response.

P.S. It is the 9.9hp which I suspect is the same engine as the 12hp and the 15hp. If I have to replace the carburetor, is it interchangeable with the 12hp and the 15hp? What I am trying to ask is can I put a carb from a 15hp onto my 9.9hp and turn it into a 15hp? Thanks.

All suggestions, comments and contributions, will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
Arthur
R.I.B.C. Barrow in Furness.
Click to expand...

Ideally, get your carb an ultra-sonic clean; you'll find details on the internet. If you plan to flush the jet yourself use brake cleaner, not carb cleaner, brake cleaner is much more effective.
 
Hello again,

After a few days cleaning and replacing components in the fuel system, I am now convinced that there is an intermittent problem with the spark. on two occasions it has started on one cylinder, or not at all! When I replace the plugs, it runs fine. Put the first set of plugs back in, and it still runs fine! John the Kiwi might be right it could be the electronic ignition, but I am hoping that it is the HT leads (probably just one of them). (When I change the plugs, I move and usually clean the leads.) So, if nobody has any better ideas, I will order HT leads. Because the fault is intermittent, I do not see how I can test them. Ideas anybody?

On the positive side. When it runs, it runs great, and I found out how to remove the governor that Honda so kindly fits to the 9.9 hp. So, now I have a Honda 12 hp (or thereabouts).
 
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