80's French boats vs their English counterparts

James W

James W

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It's well documented (on here especially) that many people feel that a Westerly, Moody or other UK built boats were/are of a higher build quality than others.

Is that really the case, or just a bit of brand loyalty and National pride?

If one had a smaller budget than a UK built boat would allow is, for example, a Jeanneau Sun Fizz 40 hugely inferior to a Moody 40? Is a Sunshine 38, half as good as a Westerly Typhoon 37 (which is about twice the price in today's market? Obviously I'm talking about like for like in terms of fit out and condition.

I'm just interested as thinking of moving up a size and although I love the solid feeling of my Westerly (which has been well used throughout her 32 years) would I get not get that confidence and quality from a mid eighties Beneteau or Jeanneau?

Thanks in advance.
 
I don't know about all of them, but the Dufours of the period seem quite robust and probably more so that later ones, judging from a 38 that we went on that had been round the world.
 
Well we bought our British boat in the 80s.

Just weren't impressed with the apparent quality of the French ones on offer at the time.

Be interested to be proved wrong but still happy with what we did.
 
Can't claim much direct expertise but wasn't Laura Decker's boat a Sun Fizz?

I sailed a Sun Magic 44 on charter in 1988...plenty of them are still going strong.

I might also point out that a higher proportion of French boats spent more time in the Med, which can account for why they often look more weathered, sunbeaten - but raises no concern structurally.

And you have to account for the owner factor. I know a couple who have had a First 38 for many years, 4 of which circumnavigating and living aboard. They are just off again...and the boat seems to be terrific both structurally and cosmetically. Would it be fair to assume that the heavier-built cruisers you cite have enjoyed different styles of ownership than the more cruiser-racer French counterparts?
 
We also got used to seeking tired looking French boats in N. French marinas.

I think at the time there were a lot of boats there in club or other multiple ownership, hence the lack of care. All added up to an impression that French boats were toys, built to have fun with, rather than the more solid virtues of British boats.

Just the way the brands on offer seemed at the time. No doubt at all that they sailed well though.
 
Let me stick out my old and fragile neck...
My present boat - French - used to be marketed as a 'cruiser-racer'. It is a Wauquiez Centurion 32, was built in 1973 and is still going strong. Without any qualms I would say, objectively, that the build quality and the level of finish is far superior to the Westerly Centaur that I had for fourteen years and was built in 1976.
I have no personal experience of owning a Benneteau or Jeanneau but my impression is that these were built down to a price whereas the Wauquiez were built up to a standard.
Here is small example. This is an inspection cover from the sole...
BobbFHV.jpg
 
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Never looked at a Wauquiez.

Probably well out of budget compared to Moody, Westerly, or the Sadler we bought.

The French boats I recall looking at were Beneteau and Feeling.

My sense at the time was that the people getting the best value out of them were the importers. They weren't that much cheaper than the British boats.
 
I think in the 80s, the 'value' was in OD racing in Sigmas, Impalas, Snots?
Other people will value different things in a boat.
No point in knocking other people's taste in boats.
 
James_Calvert said:
The French boats I recall looking at were Beneteau and Feeling.

My sense at the time was that the people getting the best value out of them were the importers. They weren't that much cheaper than the British boats.
Click to expand...

I would put it slightly differently.
The buyers were certainly getting 'More bang for their Buck'. On the other hand they (many of them, I think) learned to look at their boats as 'disposable' unless they were religiously cared for and most were put on the market after five or six years... before the expected troubles (perceived or not) materialised.
Of course one should never generalise about boats - and most things for that matter.
 
Generalisations about entire nations’ boat production for a decade are probably meaningless.
So many good, bad and indifferent boats from U.K. and France.

But talking specifics, the First 345 was a superb boat, fast, spacious and strong. Lovely boat for the era.
One has been cruised to Artic (and Antiartic?) waters for decades.
 
We looked at various boats before we bought our "Feeling 1090" ... we find it well enough built for what it is, but internally, we felt the design was far more "modern" than British boats of a similar age, it looks a lot younger than what it is (1987!)

feeling_1090_4.jpg
(not ours, but a generic off the net, but yo uget the idea)
 
Friends had a First 32. 1982 vintage?

Lots of things I didn't much like about it, but a really good sailing boat.

Saw one this year in Falmouth, now that's a really old boat (like ours) I was saying to a friend, but a really good one.
 
I've raced a First 35 and 38 extensively, and pretty hard in all sorts of weather, and sailed a First 305 a lot too, and would have absolutely no doubt about the strength of any of them. The reason that they were cheap is that they were produced efficiently in far greater volume than anything in the UK, nothing to do with being in any way compromised.
 
Bought a brand new westerly Konsort in 1985 for £24k I think it was. I remember looking at similar priced French boats and they all seemed to be a bit flimsy and designed with Med weather in mind. I did like the Cornish Crabbers Pilot Cutter which was about the same size but much more expensive that the Konsort. About that time I collected cost and displacement info on maybe 50 boats. The plot of cost against displacement was more or less linear as I guess it still would be today.
 
Currently I have a Westerly Fulmar built in 1980 and love the quality of the build.

My previous boat I bought new in 1988 was a Feeling 286. The Feeling was an open plan layout below, but there were lots of minor things that caused problems. The worst was the battery box was only stuck using wet mat to the inner hull moulding and broke free in some rough weather. Most of the elm plywood was not sealed at floor level and went black with water ingress. I only kept the Feeling for 4 years.

However comparing the woodwork of a 39 year old boat, it was definitely hand built and the fit is excellent. Most of the interior woodwork has not been touched and has stood up remarkably well. I am just about to relacquer the internal timber with the same lacquer as Westerly used.

For the OP, if you can find a Typhoon as only just over 40 were built, definitely go and look at it. It is foremost a sailing yacht rather than a floating caravan. This quote is from the Westerly Owners Association web site:

" Marry a Fulmar by all means but get a Typhoon as your mistress!" to quote The Westerly Owners Association Definitive Guides.

The Typhoon doesn't have the usual Westerly roominess and space you would expect from a Westerly of this size, but this is a beautiful boat to sail. Very light on the helm, wonderfully responsive and fast. More than that, it gives that magic thrill when you know you're on a special boat!

Designed to please the racing enthusiast but still accommodate the cruising family the Typhoon is considered by many to be the peak of Westerly achievement.

When I bought my Fulmar, unfortunately there were no Typhoons for sale, so I would probably have bought one instead.

Hope this helps.
 
I owned a First 375 and a First 38. The 38 was the best sea boat I’ve owned and never gave me a moments concern in the 15 years I had it. Often wished I’d never sold her.
I have a much newer Moody which is more of a floating caravan but it sails well. Both are of similar quality with the Moody being more fussily(better,neater )built.

Edit:

The Beneteau was a lot easier to work on, is soundly constructed and sailed really well. Sea keeping was superb.
But I wouldn’t have a newer one...
 
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RJJ said:
Can't claim much direct expertise but wasn't Laura Decker's boat a Sun Fizz?
Click to expand...

It was (now sunk by the charity that bought it off of her) a Gin Fizz ketch.

Just my 5 eurocents: down here in the Med, both nationality boats have their followers: British boats for space and comfort, French for speed (it's a generalisation, of course). A lot of Beneteau Firsts are still weekend-raced and a lot of Moodys are still here and people cruise in them! Due to sun/ports/long seasons, all boats look aged, yet the 70s-80s over-engineered varieties are still valued highly.

Wauquiez, as mentioned, were a tad higher-end than Jen and Ben, as far as I know.
 
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