3rd reef???

We have always had 3rd reef. Not used it till I crossed the Atlantic and then used it often !! It was one of theose years!
I have three reefing lines and an outhaul. I ended taking teh flattening reef out and using teh 3 rd reef.


I probably should have used it previously.

I am experimanting with the 3rd reed rigged and a tiggle to use the same line for the flattening reef as used on open 40 & 60. Havent a solution that is fault free yet.

It depends how far you are going. When you need it you do.

I also have a trisail which I did have ready on deck but never used. 3rd reef I can do from the cockpit. Trisail involves going on deck and getting wet.

Mind you testing the storm sails in 40kts over decks in St Georges Channel proved that on a close reach they worked and I had a lot of fun compared to my expectations. So cruising long distances, I would use them over 3rd reef and No 3/ No 4 Genoa.
 
snooks said:
OK I'll rephrase that :D

It should go from the boom (wrapped around it with a bowline tied back on itself if you have a loose footed main or to a fitting on the boom if you don't), up to the cringle, and down to the end of boom before disappearing into it. Otherwise when you do come to reef you'll just be pulling the sail mostly aft (and less down) at an awkward angle, rather than down and back as it should be which gives you a better purchase and will hold the clew down close to the boom, where it should be. :)
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Agreed. But it's never going to happen :eek::)
 
Reading with interest, approaches seem to vary with individual attitudes towards risk.
The messenger line to the third costs f all and is practically invisible.
Sails do tear, at which point I have used the third reef to carry on sailing.
 
I have always insisted on, and specified, 3 reefs.

While we've only got to use 2 reefs and storm jib while being knocked down in the Solent in prolonged 20 minute 55 + knot squalls, I rather fancy the idea of being able to further reduce sail, though I do believe one should ' always keep power on '...
 
snooks said:
When the time comes to need a 3rd reef you don't really want to be re reeving your reefing lines by standing on the coachroof of a bouncy boat. :)
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+1 if it isn't rigged to go it might as well not be there. We thought about trying it once before realising that the re-rigging was more likely to kill us than being slightly over canvassed!
 
This has been argued before, but is an interesting topic. Many small cruisers are fitted with three reefs with little thought to how most people sail.

I was a bit surprised and temporarily miffed when the new main I received from Kemp came with only two reefs. It was accompanied by a note saying that following recent recommendations from the JOG (I believe) they were supplying the sail with two reefs, both deeper than usual. The second reef is about halfway between a normal 2nd and 3rd. This has served me well over many years and is just right for my geriatric version of "heavy weather". I am surprised not to see this system used more widely.
 
johnalison said:
I was a bit surprised and temporarily miffed when the new main I received from Kemp came with only two reefs. It was accompanied by a note saying that following recent recommendations from the JOG (I believe) they were supplying the sail with two reefs, both deeper than usual. The second reef is about halfway between a normal 2nd and 3rd. This has served me well over many years and is just right for my geriatric version of "heavy weather". I am surprised not to see this system used more widely.
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Is there any benefit other than going to 2nd reef a little less often? I quite like the option of being able to drop to a relative sliver if it's all getting a bit much but not yet to the point of rigging storm sails...
 
Oscarpop said:
.... So, can the forumites please advise as to whether they have a third reef and whether they often need to use it in anger.
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I usually set up yachts with the 3 reefing pennants rigged, if it is possible. When I charter I always rig it if its not rigged and on my own yacht its permanently rigged.

I used to race often and then it was rarely rigged because the flattener used the sheave at the end of boom, so we had to reeve the first reefing pennant into the 3rd reef. The simplest way was to have a 3mm diameter elastic messenger running as a loop between the 3rd and 2nd reefing cringes and pull the pennant through using a clove hitch when the 2nd reef was in.

I have used the 3rd reef many times but that was in the nature of the job, as opposed to leisure sailing. Having said that the last time was in a 7 beating down the Sound of Kerrera with a load of kids (adult and young uns) for leisure. It makes an otherwise boisterous day, safe and enjoyable, providing the rain stays off.

I would say that it doesn't matter if its rigged or not, just know how to rig it underway, have the boat set up to rig it and be confident in how to do it. One should be able to reeve a pennant that accidentally comes undone anyway. The last thing you need in boisterous conditions is too much sail up because the 3rd reefing pennant has pulled through the boom; sailing being preferable to motoring in strong winds.

johnalison's point I have heard before, although rarely, but I recently discussed this with someone as well. The coding requirements for charter yachts drives the reefing space out that is common at the moment. As johnalison states it appears to work well. Quandary of this parish has also expressed an opinion on preferring this type of set up, 2 reefs spaced better for efficient cruising, and he has significant experience of sail setting for performance.
 
I have one only used it 3 times that I can remember but been glad of it. Once being away on a cruise and having to beat to windward and on two other occasion when I was away from my home berth and had to get back. On both occasion I was sailing to windward. If I'd been on a beam reach or broad reach it would have been fine with 2 reefs.
 
When I got my boat a few years ago, a Moody33, it still had the original round the boom reefing. The gooseneck collapsed soon after so got another boom & gooseneck and converted to 3 reefs. Local sailmaker fitted the required cringles etc. The boom did have 3 sheaves so this was easy and the reefing lines are always permanently fitted. The mainsail is permanently tied to the boom and is not easily adjustable which works fine for me. The tack goes over hooks at the gooseneck with 'spectacles' through the cringles which are easy to fit on the hooks. I've marked the halyard so it's the correct length to just slip over the hook(reefing is done at the mast).
I've only ever used two reefs in anger but it's reassuring to know a 3rd is available.
 
I have one as I have a lift keel trailer sailer and above 25 knots a 3rd reef and full normal jib gives the best balance and performance. It is fairly lightly ballasted nd so is a bit like a big dinghy. Used it in the RIR last year and with 4 on board were still over canvassed in the gusts but went like a train. I guess it depends on the boat to some extent.
 
I have 3 reefs with lines permanently in position. The 3rd reef has been used on quite a few occasions and at times I've been very glad to have it. (The Etap does have quite a tall rig and needs to be reefed relatively early). All reefs are 2 line so everything is done from the cockpit (I generally single hand). The boom end had only the standard 3 sheaves (outhaul + reefs 1 & 2) but I tied on a loose block each side to handle reef 3 and the leech Cunningham respectively.

I've used this system for many years now and it works reliably and well.
 
Very much depends on boat type, and amount of sail area und full sail.

Many boats are under canvassed and hence slow in light winds, only getting powered up above 10 knots or so. Suspect they don't need a third reef, as effectively sail originally undersized as equivalent of first reef.
Personally I see this as a big failing for a fun sailing boat

A boat with a more generous sail area will sail fast in lighst winds, which in my mind is better, but nip in first reef cruising to windward in say 12- 14 knots. In which case 3rd reef much more important
We use the third reef regularly, anything above 25 knots to windward. Less hassle and more speed
 
johnalison said:
This has been argued before, but is an interesting topic. Many small cruisers are fitted with three reefs with little thought to how most people sail.

I was a bit surprised and temporarily miffed when the new main I received from Kemp came with only two reefs. It was accompanied by a note saying that following recent recommendations from the JOG (I believe) they were supplying the sail with two reefs, both deeper than usual. The second reef is about halfway between a normal 2nd and 3rd. This has served me well over many years and is just right for my geriatric version of "heavy weather". I am surprised not to see this system used more widely.
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It's all a compromise and you will never please everybody.
I don't like have miles of reefing line lashing around the leach causing a lot of wear and tear.
I don' like th idea of too many slack lines in the boom that may twist or tangle.
I prefer to rig reefing lines according to the forecast.
I'm happy to rig the next reef once I've put one in.
It's good to practice this and know what hand holds and clipping on points work before having to do it at night in F7.
Know thy boat...
 
I agree that there is never going to be one solution that suits all sailors and all boats. I have got used to an effective rig that suits us, rather than sailing around with an unrigged 3rd reef. This is partly because my boat will carry full sail to windward (110% jib) in up to 24 knots apparent wind and will not gripe at 28. While not a racing boat we are not under-canvassed and hold our own against most lighter boats of our age (twelve years) in light airs.
 
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